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Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to VICTOR1)
i played a few that were excellent quality. The father's guitars also could be hit or miss. I have played very amazing ones and quite mediocre ones. Gerardo Nuñez waited years for his Reyes Padre...played it only for a year or so and quickly sold it. Same with every luthier I think there is no guarantee of perfection with each build. The success of some factory makes lies on the fact some have a high output (competitive price) with relatively good results. In the end one guys "lemon" guitar is another's dream.
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
The father's guitars also could be hit or miss. I have played very amazing ones and quite mediocre ones. Gerardo Nuñez waited years for his Reyes Padre...played it only for a year or so and quickly sold it.
That is quite a statement there; if not to say a courageous one. For me at least the first time, I think, that I hear something sobering / critical about Reyes from across the pond. In America he seems just to be celebrated like a flawless guitar Trinity.
From Germans I have heard / read some critical comments, even to the extend of Reyes guitars being overrated ( maybe Yankess let only the duds escape to Europe?), but from an American, this could be first time. Just TYI.
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to Ruphus)
I've seen and played some Reyes guitars and the guitars that have thinner tops are noticeably better if they are tuned right. The thicker tops hide some major or minor problems but what I find in all of the guitars I've tried out is that the top timbre is very educated, very much like a good Santos. Timbre and articulation wins it for me, as long as the tone is sufficiently produced.
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to VICTOR1)
I talked with him(hijo) and it seems like he's still studying building. Definately overpriced at 7500 euros from the shop(and there's about 15 months waiting list).
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to tele)
quote:
ORIGINAL: tele
I talked with him(hijo) and it seems like he's still studying building. Definately overpriced at 7500 euros from the shop(and there's about 15 months waiting list).
That price seems a lot less than what they sell for in California. And what happened to the 22 year wait list for Manuel Sr. ? I would think that his list would have been taken over by his son.
I had a chance to try out a Manuel Sr. classical guitar a few weeks ago and the owner wanted 30,000 dollars for it.
I don't ever judge a builder's prices, if the market supports it.
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to tele)
quote:
ORIGINAL: tele
I talked with him(hijo) and it seems like he's still studying building. Definately overpriced at 7500 euros from the shop(and there's about 15 months waiting list).
Every great luthier I have talked to studied building as long as he lived.
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to tele)
quote:
I talked with him(hijo) and it seems like he's still studying building
I had one on order from the taller, 4.000 euros. I returned it, for bad workmanship and poor intonation. Padre told me that he was doing things like glueing on the bridge. Seems like hijo is still studying the basics
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to Tom Blackshear)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
I had a chance to try out a Manuel Sr. classical guitar a few weeks ago and the owner wanted 30,000 dollars for it.
I don't ever judge a builder's prices, if the market supports it.
I state the market doesn´t support it. In relation to 30.000 $ I would prefer buying a Santos Hernández or Marcelo Barbero. These can be bought (with a little luck) at round about 4.000 to 6.000 €. From the rest I´d buy a car or go on holiday.
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to bernd)
quote:
ORIGINAL: bernd
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
I had a chance to try out a Manuel Sr. classical guitar a few weeks ago and the owner wanted 30,000 dollars for it.
I don't ever judge a builder's prices, if the market supports it.
I state the market doesn´t support it. In relation to 30.000 $ I would prefer buying a Santos Hernández or Marcelo Barbero. These can be bought (with a little luck) at round about 4.000 to 6.000 €. From the rest I´d buy a car or go on holiday.
Point taken but the issue here is that there are guitars that bring certain amounts of money to the market, like a modern built Dammann, etc.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to bernd)
quote:
I state the market doesn´t support it. In relation to 30.000 $ I would prefer buying a Santos Hernández or Marcelo Barbero.
If a Manuel Reyes Sr. guitar can be sold for $30K, the only conclusion that can be drawn is the market supports it, regardless of your personal preferences. Guitars, like any other commodity, go for what the market will bear, whether one agrees with it or not.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: manuel reyes hijo flamenco guitars (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
If a Manuel Reyes Sr. guitar can be sold for $30K, the only conclusion that can be drawn is the market supports it, regardless of your personal preferences. Guitars, like any other commodity, go for what the market will bear, whether one agrees with it or not.
This is no phenomenon but a calculated work in progress that happens over a long period of time for many of us. But gone are the days that a builder working in his small shop had anything to do with modern advertising and popular players and music companies pushing product regardless of performance quality.
Any photo artist can make a $300 guitar look like a million dollars due to the vast ignorance of the buying public, and the guitar's foot deep appearance with a lacquer finish.
And let's face it, the modern scientific approach of the American luthier has changed the dynamic of the Spanish guitar to some extent.
With the modern scientific approach, this has brought the guitar to another level for the American luthier. Now, with new technology we can take a closer look at the work of the old Spanish masters and gain insight into what, at least according to some, were closely guarded fine-tuning secrets.
Whether by using this technology, we can actually find the ultimate value of these secrets remains to be seen. But one thing is certain: It has widened the supply side of the market with some remarkable sounding guitars.
But I will still give credit to the traditional Spanish builder for setting the level of excellence for the guitar. And because Spain has given us so many master craftsmen, it is to be accepted that many of their instruments have collector value.
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