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reminder of how difficult flamenco is
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: reminder of how difficult flamen... (in reply to rogeliocan)
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quote:
When I did accompanying for seguiriyas, bulerias and solea at a local peña nobody was frowning if I did mistakes so in that sense I would say at least that it's relaxed, but I'm sure it depends on what kind of people are around you. But it's really a great feeling doing accompanying for good singers, sort of takes the guitar to another level. Even when there's some mistakes in my accompanying. The point for me in flamenco and guitar is to have fun They didn´t frown at me either. On the contrary, they alway told me how good I was and when I stopped, they kept calling me asking if I would come and play. But I personally felt that it was frustrating. I sometimes go there, but without a guitar. They are very sweet people. Besides that, I dont think flamenco is so interesting when it comes to jamming, groups etc. Its, again, stiff and chaotic at the same time. Unless you are into playing rumba solos, which I find to be very boring.
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Date Jun. 16 2014 10:59:44
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Morante
Posts: 2181
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
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RE: reminder of how difficult flamen... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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I think that proves that it is not so difficult The cante is hard of course, even for an Andaluz, but for a guiri, or even for an aficionado Andaluz,the guitar is relatively easy: you only need to know a few simple chord progressions and a couple of falsetas. Then, if you have listened to enough cante, you can do a basic accompaniment, without being a great guitarist. I have accompanied Juan Silva, Nani de Cádiz, Angel Pastor, Rancapino and many others and I can barely play guitar Problem here is an obsession with guitar instead of an obsession with flamenco
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Date Jun. 16 2014 15:35:49
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tele
Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
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RE: reminder of how difficult flamen... (in reply to Morante)
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ORIGINAL: Morante I think that proves that it is not so difficult The cante is hard of course, even for an Andaluz, but for a guiri, or even for an aficionado Andaluz,the guitar is relatively easy: you only need to know a few simple chord progressions and a couple of falsetas. Then, if you have listened to enough cante, you can do a basic accompaniment, without being a great guitarist. I have accompanied Juan Silva, Nani de Cádiz, Angel Pastor, Rancapino and many others and I can barely play guitar Problem here is an obsession with guitar instead of an obsession with flamenco I don't know I think it's a point of view but not completely true as to play flamenco well and with soul, even a simple falseta can take years to master. Personally I play all types of guitar starting from heavy metal and the flamenco guitar is at least three times harder to play than any other type of guitar music. In theory it might be simple. I like the social aspect of flamenco alot as can be seen even the pro singers can play with non pro guitarists like you.
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Date Jun. 16 2014 15:43:22
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: reminder of how difficult flamen... (in reply to rogeliocan)
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I see this and I am reminded (although I reminded it of it every day), how flamenco is difficult, and how the professional players are so good. Yes, the flamenco guitar is incredibly difficult to master. There are members of the Foro (Ricardo and Grisha come to mind) who have mastered it. My flamenco guitar maetro and good friend, Paco de Malaga, who has spent a lifetime playing flamenco, has nothing but praise for Ricardo's playing. Others on the Foro are no doubt very accomplished as well. For my part, I have loved flamenco since I was 17 (transpose those digits and you have my current age: 71), at a time when I didn't even understand it. I just knew I loved the sound of flamenco guitar. After university, a stint in the U.S. Air Force, and a career in the U.S. Foreign Service, I decided to learn flamenco, not only to play the guitar, but to learn the history of flamenco, the key figures in that history, and most of all the key element of cante, something I had no knowledge of at the age of 17 and for many years thereafter. It was only after I met and became a student of Paco that I really began learning how to play and so much more. Regardless of the difficulty, I have very much enjoyed learning flamenco sufficiently to reach my current level of play. To me, the difficulty is not frustrating because I play not as a vocation but as an avocation. I have many interests, and flamenco is just one of them. It is enough for me to incrementally play a little better each time I learn something new. but I know I will never be an accomplished flamenco guitarist. To me, it is enough to at least understand the art form and be able to play it at a certain amateurish level. I entertain myself and occasionally some friends over a glass of jerez. Just now, I am on a U.S. State Department consulting gig at the American Embassy in Majuro, capital of the Marshall Islands in the West-Central Pacific. The Embassy has put me up in a house on pilings, with a deck that is over the edge of the coral atoll lagoon. The most pleasant part of the day is when I return from the Embassy about 5:30 PM each day, sit out on the deck over the lagoon as the sun sinks on the far side of the coral atoll, drink a couple glasses of jerez, and play a little flamenco on the guitar. It likely is not a perfect rendition of a solea', but it is satisfying and makes me think how blessedly good life can be. Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jun. 16 2014 22:02:52
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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: reminder of how difficult flamen... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
My flamenco guitar maetro and good friend, Paco de Malaga, who has spent a lifetime playing flamenco, has nothing but praise for Ricardo's playing. Even though I had listened to a little flamenco since I was about 15 or so, Paco was the first flamenco player I had ever seen perform live (when I was just 18) ...it left a lasting impression. I quickly learned that flamenco is more than guitar playing, and as I got deeper and more serious couldn't help but feel like an intruder to a very deep culture. I think the most difficult aspect of flamenco playing is to be able to simply show that respect and do things authentically and sincerely while still being yourself. After that, the details of playing physically (techniques), musicality (structure), performing (juergas or stage), politics (guasa and attitudes), etc, are not so hard to deal with. If you find yourself getting caught up with any one of those and it's preventing you from continuing or doing your best or having true enjoyment, simply go back and show respect to the culture and the art form. It's important because the rewards for just doing that are huge.
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Date Jun. 17 2014 4:41:34
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: reminder of how difficult flamen... (in reply to rogeliocan)
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quote:
That’s not what I’ve found most frustrating. There are of course many women who are interested in Flamenco, and naturally the following does not refer to them. But a syndrome I’ve come across repeatedly is that men want to go to the peña, but their wives and girlfriends don’t want the men going without them (for whatever reason), so they come along. But they really have no interest in Flamenco, so they form a clique that spends the whole evening yakking, while the men (and the flamencas) are struggling to listen. Can I be the only one who’s had this experience? haha, ye, I´ve had that experience to but mostly when it was shows. Our saturday afternoons in one of the peñas in Huelva was without the wives. It was because the doors were closed and you had to be member of the peña in order to get in. (Spanish laws), And since there were no woman, the wives could stay home in peace. The whole spanish family tradition has stong sides, but it also has some very dark sides. Lots of control.
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Date Jun. 19 2014 7:29:52
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