Ramirez Trebles Recommendation

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SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

Ramirez Trebles Recommendation

Anyone care to recommend or share their experiences with trebles strings on a Jose Ramirez?

-Rick

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 15:58:05

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

Jose Ramirez what?

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 21:55:04

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

Jose Ramirez what?

Ramon,

Any.

If that is too broad, then how about a flamenco negra Ramirez lll era?

-Rick

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 22:12:06

Guest

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

Had an 80's sp/cy 1A peg head as a main guitar for about five years
Recently upgraded to an 80's Conde

Is your question about the 'sound' of the trebles or what treble strings worked best on the guitar ?
If the first .. Loud, sharp, biting but without the roundness, depth and sizzle of my Conde ..
If the latter .. Luthier 20, labella 820b, Mari 300 and savarez or labella rectified all sounded ole on the guitar ...d'Addario and hannabach strings generally sounded duller but found most strings worked with luthier being preferred

Hope that helps

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 1:01:24

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Guest)

Al,

Thanks for the input.

I'll try the LaBella 820's and the Luither 20's.

I was reading where Ricardo said the 820B LeBella's didn't work well on some guitars. So, I was curious how they worked on a rosewood Rameriz.
So, I am happy to hear they worked for you.

In the past I tried LaBella 2001 blacks on it and thought they were too dull and not as musical as other strings. The Savares Alliance trebles are okay. Like you the, I find the Hannabach 815 and D'Addario EJ43 weak.

But, after playing my Vicente Sanchis classical, I pick up the Ramirez and the trebles just aren't there so to speak.

Rick

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 13:32:16

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

You could check if the saddle is ok.

If the guitar is lacking so much treble as you say, then it is either "just like that" or something is wrong with it and needs to be fixed.

It's not good when you have to EQ your guitar with some special strings for it to please you.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 13:53:27

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SephardRick

In the past I tried LaBella 2001 blacks on it and thought they were too dull and not as musical as other strings. The Savares Alliance trebles are okay. Like you the, I find the Hannabach 815 and D'Addario EJ43 weak.

Try the Savarez Crystal trebles, I think they're brighter than the Alliance. Isn't the EJ43 a low tension string? You might get better results with the D'Addario EJ45 or EJ46.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 14:23:06

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I've had two new bone saddles cut - One low and another high. Surprisingly the
higher saddle didn't make much of a difference projecting the trebles.

Also, had a new bone nut cut with a 1/3 contact surface for the strings. It really didn't make a difference.

I bought it a little over a year ago. I love the guitar's rich tone and harmonics. It is the most musical and lowest action guitar I own. Just wondered if certain treble string worked better on it.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 14:28:15

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

Try the Savarez Crystal trebles, I think they're brighter than the Alliance. Isn't the EJ43 a low tension string? You might get better results with the D'Addario EJ45 or EJ46.

Yes, The EJ43 are low tensions. I've tried EJ46 hard tensions, which I thought weren't as bright as the EJ43's.

But will give the Savarez Crystals a try.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 14:35:40

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

It's not good when you have to EQ your guitar with some special strings for it to please you.

Rui,

It's a hard pill to swallow, but you are right. I have got an appetite for treble, which this guitar isn't feeding me.
Maybe it something it just can't do....

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 14:58:14

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

It's a hard pill to swallow, but you are right. I have got an appetite for treble, which this guitar isn't feeding me.
Maybe it something it just can't do....

Been there too

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 15:06:14

Guest

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

worked on a rosewood Rameriz.

mine was a blanca with a spruce top
it certainly did'nt lack trebles....a good guitar...very adaptable to most strings handy....

the labella 2001 are, IMO a dull treble string compared to the 820
Savarez red card are a pretty bright set [again rectified nylon]
just a shorter life span

good luck

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 15:39:43

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

You sound like reluctant to part with the guitar. If ready to experiment:
These days adoring the work of Pepe Romero, there was that detail about his nuts. He uses brass for that.

I would expect this material to turn out thin sounding with your average guitar. However, his is so solid in tone that it can obviously handle some brittleness rather well. Anyway, you could try that out. It should not be expensive nor large-scaled to do.

And if you do, be a decent guy and let us know how it turned out.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 16:37:22

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

You sound like reluctant to part with the guitar. If ready to experiment:
These days adoring the work of Pepe Romero, there was that detail about his nuts. He uses brass for that

Ruphus,

I like the way you think.

From time to time I have seen photos of Pepe Junior's guitars with a brass nut. Jr. wouldn't install it on as many guitars unless there was an advantage to it.

I feel it would definitely be worthwhile cutting a brass nut for it. It maybe a few weeks, but I will post the results of the conversion.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 16:59:21

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

Great, Rick.

I am really cursious to see how it will turn out!

Ruphus

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 17:35:25

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SephardRick

From time to time I have seen photos of Pepe Junior's guitars with a brass nut. Jr. wouldn't install it on as many guitars unless there was an advantage to it.

I feel it would definitely be worthwhile cutting a brass nut for it. It maybe a few weeks, but I will post the results of the conversion.

I tried that about 30-40 years ago and couldn't detect any difference. I also experimented with saddles made from various materials including brass with the same result. One of my customers took this to an extreme and had a solid gold saddle made for his guitar which changed nothing. Using different materials for nuts and saddles is a fad that happens every few years and then thankfully vanishes. I wouldn't waste your money on a brass nut. Sometimes you have to accept that your guitar has some shortcomings and try to make adjustments like playing a little closer to the bridge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 14:12:41

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

One of my customers took this to an extreme and had a solid gold saddle made for his guitar which changed nothing.

And all this time I've been thinking that if it cost more it must automatically be better, whether it's nut/saddle material, strings, tuning machines and...heaven forbid...even GUITARS!
Are you saying that all these experts who seem to spend most of their free waking moments on internet forums are wrong???
Say it just ain't so!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 14:55:15

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

I tried that about 30-40 years ago and couldn't detect any difference. I also experimented with saddles made from various materials including brass with the same result. One of my customers took this to an extreme and had a solid gold saddle made for his guitar which changed nothing. Using different materials for nuts and saddles is a fad that happens every few years and then thankfully vanishes. I wouldn't waste your money on a brass nut. Sometimes you have to accept that your guitar has some shortcomings and try to make adjustments like playing a little closer to the bridge

John,

Thanks for the heads up. If you have tried a brass nut without an improvement, then maybe I shouldn't go there. For nylon string guitars, brass nuts aren't on the market. I was ready to use a brass carriage bolt for a blank and machine it to 52mm x 6mm x 9mm block. Then, file it from there.

Also, I've toyed with the idea of using mother-of-pearl shell. Banjos use it and it is very dense.

But, like some of you suggest, another guitar may be a more sane answer. There someone has a Ricardo Sanchis blanca in rough shape I might buy. It is a fix-me-up, but it might a better approach than turning s sows ear into a silk purse.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 15:03:47

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

Are you saying that all these experts who seem to spend most of their free waking moments on internet forums are wrong???

Ha! Ha!

Seriously, I appreciate them sharing, which is saving me a lot of time and effort!

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 15:09:04

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

a negra from jose 3 period? are you sure the guitar in question is a negra and not a classical?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 15:09:19

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to keith)

That's was a target example in response to Ramon's question.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 15:12:50

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

Just don´t listen too much to minds who settled stereotypes to themselves like that tuning machines could not make a difference. Such only displays either the inability to hear subtleties like the ones discussed in this thread, or worse than that, a religious attitude in life, which favours predefined claims over empiricis.

For, while I can´t vouch for the effects of brass nuts, I can definitly do so for technically advanced tuners, whichs difference in use and precision I am ready to prove under blind-test conditions anytime.

Other distinguished reference, here advising you to not try, is unable to experience obvious empirics like e.g. skins friction on smooth surfaces, so, with how much observational skills can there be counted on?

Besides, remarkable about the lumping spirit is how the fraction that ridicules items like fine tuners has actually not even experienced top product like tuners from Klaus Scheller. Instead being all occupied with defending deliberately chosen ignorance.

Could be on the other hand a guy like Romero Jr. to have judge enough on thelike detail. Apparently and not at last has it provided him with the ability to build guitars like only few can.

I say try that nut. To prepare it roughly is little work, and afterwards you will actually hear whether it can help or not. ( And those of us curious enough will be interested to hear of your findings.
Maybe you could try before and after recording at roughly same tracking condition? Just in case of it making a difference.)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 16:21:13

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

You only play 6 notes from the nut. Would anyone expect such a drastic difference by change the nut? I don't think so.

As I've said, check if the saddle is properly cut. Recently I was going back in forth between two bone saddles and there was a big difference in sound. I thought it was due to bone density/quality.

After closer inspection, one of the bones accomodated almost all of the string that goes on top of it while the other was only touching the string almost at the highest end of the saddle. After smoothing this second saddle to be like the other one, things got pretty much the same (meaning good!).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 16:36:18

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

You only play 6 notes from the nut.

Makes sense. Hadn´t thought of this simple fact!

And also correct about difference with nut condition.
I just filed one days ago, after having tried to lay carton of calling cards under the old nut. It would not work; especially not for the mids, and though lazy me had to make a new one.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 16:49:26

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

And all this time I've been thinking that if it cost more it must automatically be better, whether it's nut/saddle material, strings, tuning machines and...heaven forbid...even GUITARS!
Are you saying that all these experts who seem to spend most of their free waking moments on internet forums are wrong???
Say it just ain't so!!!

Ok, it ain't so! All the experts who have never built a guitar and wouldn't know how to use a chisel or plane let alone sharpen one are right and my 45 years of building, experimenting and playing guitar mean nothing.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 18:13:53

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Rui,

You make a good point! Using bar chords or even playing notes further up the fret board should be under the influence of the nut no matter what material it is made from.

As far as the saddle fit, I use a fret crowning file. It round off the bottom of the saddle where it rest against the bridge without a gap. You couldn't push a human hair between it.
Again, you're probably right. She may moan in the bed, but she can't cook in the kitchen.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 18:59:52

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Ruphus)

Rufus,

Appreciate your kindness and encouragement all the same.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 19:01:34

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

What I said is that the nut won't matter that much.

Maybe that rounding of the saddle at the bottom is part of the problem. Never heard of anyone doing that. After I have them perfectly square (90 degrees) at the bottom, I just do a pass or two on sandpaper to eliminate the sharpness of the edges at the bottom.

Here's what I originally meant:

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 19:19:37

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to Sr. Martins)

OK...So, if I slop the top of the saddle to allow more string-to-saddle surface area might enhance the trebles?

It is worth a shot. Also, it just might prolong bass string life too. Since I have several saddles, I can try the taller one. I can always reshape it.

Good idea Rui.

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Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 19:58:42

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Ramirez Trebles Recommendation (in reply to SephardRick)

Hey Rick,

You want both, saddle and nut to be perfectly flat at the bottom and allow neat and thorough contact with the slot bottom. Reduction of surface will be loss of transmitting.
Also be cautious with their crown. It effects the intonation.
Even just slight out of intonation will significantly reduce fun with the instrument.

John,

Where do you know from that "the experts" wouldn´t know how to handle chisels and planes?
I for one challenged a regularly educated German journeyman on a workpiece and won hands down. ( The man was really frustrated to say the least.)
And first time that I sharpened a planes blade I must have been around the age of 13 or so.

And lastly: Learning is not evenly spread. People make experience with different efficiency.
We have builders on this forum who may outperform some old hands already after only a handful of guitars built.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 20:16:08