Camaron con la Colaboracion Especial de Paco de Lucia

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Xavi

Posts: 68
Joined: Jul. 10 2012

Camaron con la Colaboracion Especial...

I've been revisiting the superb Potro de rabia y miel and wondering what Camaron and Paco are creating these days, wherever they are...

This, in turn, led me to go back to the source material, primarily the first three collaborations.

It's been a while since I really "listened" to these, but man I love Paco during this time. And, what a significant turning point, 1969...

-- The duo destroy Flamenco ;) with the release of Al verte las flores lloran;
-- Paco releases Fantasia Flamenco;
-- the Festival Flamenco Gitano tour w/ Maria Vargas and Cepero; not to mention,
-- ...the El Lebrijano project...

And then all hell really breaks loose for Paco the following years (and I mean that in a good way)...

So, let's discuss, what are some of your favorite Camaron / de Lucia tracks, highlights, stories, observations?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2014 19:24:42

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

You’ve already mentioned my favourite: Al verte las flores lloran.

Just as Picasso drew portraits like photographs when he was in his teens and Schoenberg wrote a textbook on conventional harmony before he started doing the twelve-tone thing, Camarón and Paco showed their totally mastery of the traditional approach — listen to the soleá and seguriya, for example.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2014 23:18:23

liv

Posts: 12
Joined: Mar. 1 2013

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

You’ve already mentioned my favourite: Al verte las flores lloran.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2014 2:12:26

Xavi

Posts: 68
Joined: Jul. 10 2012

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

Yes, Al verte las flores lloran -- not only as a complete work, but as a powerhouse intro track...Almoraima and La Canada are that way for me as well.

To continue the story...

By 1971, 23-year-old Paco's not mincing words in his interview with Triunfo magazine:

"The Gypsies are very good at interpreting flamenco, they are true artists, but they create very few new things, because they have a fear of reality. They improve in terms of technique, but not in inventiveness. What’s more, the old ones – the patriarchs of flamenco – don’t open new paths, they don’t want the art to evolve (“no quieren que evolucione”). And the young don’t dare contradict them..."

Triunfo: Let’s talk about cante. Does it have the same problems with tradition that the guitar does?

Paco de Lucia: Yes, it’s the same. There are very famous singers, considered to be maestros (masters), whom I don’t like. They’ve done a lot for flamenco, they are teaching young artists to sing, but the young people aren’t really expressing themselves; they’ve heard all the old stuff, but without any original creativity (“pero sin la menor creacion original”). They seem like flamenco tape recorders...

...Nonetheless, there’s a new singer who, for my taste, is the best of all time (“es de lo mejor que ha salido en todas las epocas”.) His name is Camarón de la Isla...

...Maybe he doesn’t know a hundred flamenco song forms, like the purists who presume to know a hundred different songs. I’d be okay if he only knew two, because I feel better with those two than with the hundred songs of the others. (“Yo me conform con que el sepa dos, pero con esos dos yo me siento mejor que con los cien cantes de los otros.”) Because although he only sings you two songs, and sings them to you every day, every day you hear a different song. He is one of those who do flamenco without “camelo” (deception, lying). And what’s more, his voice has perfect “afinación” (melodic precision, perfect tune); he has all the attributes (“condiciones”) that anyone can have to sing flamenco. Well, he’s got everything – there it is. (“Bueno, lo tiene todo, ya esta.”)
(Source: http://www.flamencoexperience.com/blog/?p=171)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2014 23:03:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

For me it is the second one, Cada vez que nos miramos, The first full Cante album I ever bought and found it in a shopping mall. Listened over and over and learned how to sing that granaina and some other bits like the fandango of Gloria. At the time I thought those were all HIS melodic inventions or improvisations. I loved the sound of paco's dry blanca and it is still my favorite guitar tone. And then there is that blistering picado buleria falseta. And finally the album cover with the crucifix shadow in the background added this intense "ritualistic" vibe to the whole thing that left a lasting impression on me as an aficionado.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 12:17:55

Ramirez

Posts: 243
Joined: Apr. 16 2005

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

If anyone is interested, for some weird reason, the entire Camaron box set, Integral, featuring all the albums that Paco and Camaron recorded together (and all his other recorded work) is still available on iTunes for just £7.99…

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 12:30:54

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

For me it is the second one, Cada vez que nos miramos, The first full Cante album I ever bought and found it in a shopping mall. Listened over and over and learned how to sing that granaina and some other bits like the fandango of Gloria. At the time I thought those were all HIS melodic inventions or improvisations. I loved the sound of paco's dry blanca and it is still my favorite guitar tone. And then there is that blistering picado buleria falseta. And finally the album cover with the crucifix shadow in the background added this intense "ritualistic" vibe to the whole thing that left a lasting impression on me as an aficionado.

Well written 'copy' [in the advertising sense, here] Ricardo. Your recommendations never failed me, and I will certainly devote some time to this album.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 14:58:28

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

For me it is the second one, Cada vez que nos miramos, The first full Cante album I ever bought and found it in a shopping mall.

Yes, the music that first turned us on to something always has a special place in our hearts. For me it was Manolo Caracol singing Pañuelo de rayas, with Ricardo on guitar.

When I played it to my mum, she thought I had the LP on 45 rpm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 15:44:30

Xavi

Posts: 68
Joined: Jul. 10 2012

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 5:55:40

changue

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

Castillo de Arena!

It's classic Camaron all the way through, 'Samara', 'Y Mira Que Mira y Mira', and it ends with the fantastic granaina 'Que he dejao de quererte' and a comparatively rare siguiriya. Camaron is in absolute top form here and the momentum of confidence is building that'll take him into La Leyenda del Tiempo.

I bought my first copy, on cassette, from El Corte Ingles, just about the only place to buy music in those days, and it has been etched on my consciousness ever since. I've got Potro de Rabia y Miel but I never play it. I'd rather remember him like this. Paco! Ramon! Ole!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 15:07:00

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

quote:

what are some of your favorite Camaron / de Lucia tracks, highlights, stories, observations?

Pretty much all of them!
my first encounter with Camarón was a compilation tape, I didn't know any of the stuff before, and it was the Bulerías de la Perla (that I later found out was on Calle Real) that first made an impression.
In fact I think that was the first time I really "got" cante.
Later I started to pick up other recordings, and really like all the Paco and Camarón albums, more than the later Paco/Camarón/Tomatito ones.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 20:52:10

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Xavi)

The best Camaron I ever heard was in a festival in Dos Hermanos, when he was accompanied by Tomatito. Paco Cepero did a solo spot which was also impresionante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 23:16:59

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Paco Cepero did a solo spot which was also impresionante.

but not flamenco, presumably

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 15:07:26

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

but not flamenco, presumably

Extremely flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 15:56:55

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

but not flamenco, presumably

Extremely flamenco

I thought you considered solo guitar as not flamenco?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 20:23:47

shaun

Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada

RE: Camaron con la Colaboracion Espe... (in reply to changue)

quote:

Castillo de Arena!

I second that! My favourite Camarón album. Both Camarón and Paco are in top form displaying a ton of confidence and power in their respective performances.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 21:11:23