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Hello, I'm always having problems with my nails: they are thin and brittle and break and split easily.
- Does anybody here have experience with playing using finger picks?
- if so, which ones?
For classical I can use the Butterflyes nicely, but they don't work for downstrokes (as in all forms of rasgueados) at all, because they get stripped.
How about Rico Nails fixed with these removable points? Advice much appreciated
Robert
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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
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Posts: 15725
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RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rojarosguitar
Hello, I'm always having problems with my nails: they are thin and brittle and break and split easily.
- Does anybody here have experience with playing using finger picks?
- if so, which ones?
For classical I can use the Butterflyes nicely, but they don't work for downstrokes (as in all forms of rasgueados) at all, because they get stripped.
How about Rico Nails fixed with these removable points? Advice much appreciated
Robert
If you want authentic sound at all it simply wont' work, very sorry. However, thousands of players complain of nail problems such as you and there is a simple solution....KRAZY GLUE. Cover the entire nails with that stuff let it dry and you will be good to go. After it wears off (a week or less depend on playing) ....put more on.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
If you want authentic sound at all it simply wont' work, very sorry. However, thousands of players complain of nail problems such as you and there is a simple solution....KRAZY GLUE. Cover the entire nails with that stuff let it dry and you will be good to go. After it wears off (a week or less depend on playing) ....put more on.
I've heard that Krazy Glue damages the nails even more in the long run, that's why I'm hesitating to use it.
Anybody here using RicoNails? I have already tried Acrylic Gel but it doesn't stay there for long and makes my nail also even more brittle.
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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
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RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
KRAZY GLUE. Cover the entire nails with that stuff let it dry and you will be good to go. After it wears off (a week or less depend on playing) ....put more on.
I agree with Ricardo. Krazy Glue does the trick. I use it and I am just an amateur dilettante playing flamenco. The only thing I would say is I don't think you need to cover the entire nail. I just cover the portion from the edge of the nail to about 1/4 inch down the nail. I have heard that it is unhealthy for the entire nail to be covered with the glue. (Apparently the nail--which is made of keratin--"breathes.")
Cheers,
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to BarkellWH)
Thanks.
How do you spread the Krazy Glue on your nail? I mean, any brush will get so hard that you could use it only once!
Still my question: anybody having a comment about Rico Nails?
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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
I've heard that Krazy Glue damages the nails even more in the long run, that's why I'm hesitating to use it.
Absolutely FALSE. What hurts the nail is premature removal, or attempts at removal. DON"T TRY TO TAKE IT OFF....as tempting as it might seem. Let it wear on it's own. If you have uneven holes, just apply more, it's simple. Natural nails remain fine underneath and so will your health. Don't get it in your eye or sniff it when it is not dry.
The brush on is best, it is fine if you keep it in the tightly sealed bottle. Extra protection is keep it in a plastic zip lock bag .... treat it like food you need to keep fresh. If it starts to go bad, the dry stuff on your nail flakes easy. The non dry stuff becomes gooey. It is time to discard and buy a new bottle. It lasts orders of magnitude longer if stored in the plastic bag. But I have never gone through an entire small bottle before having to discard for a fresh one.
Krazy Glue is a brand name for a single main ingredient:CYANOACRYLATE....there are many products the same with different names...anything "brush on nail glue" is the same thing. Ricardo
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
How do you spread the Krazy Glue on your nail? I mean, any brush will get so hard that you could use it only once!
There is a brush-on bottle with the brush attached to the cap. Just keep the cap on tight after each use, and the brush will remain immersed in the glue in the bottle and flexible.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
Zap CA from the local hobby shop works great, and is a better quality CA than some of the "nail" glues. You can speed it up (although it gets very hot) with an accelerator spray. You just build it up where you need it and sand it to shape.
In an interview with Niño Ricardo he was asked about his notorious "uñas de papel [paper nails]." He showed his right hand to the interviewer and said only one word, "pegamento [glue]."
In the jacket photo of one of his ABC records, Mario Escudero clearly has his right hand nails completely covered with glue.
I only used it for repairs, maybe once in a year or two, since my nails are strong. Once in a while I would split a nail working on my sailboat or diving. I can't say what the effect of covering the entire nail would be.
Since cyanoacrylate has become widely available I have used it two or three times for repairs, over maybe the last 25 years. It is harder than the nitrocellulose, and adheres better. The method I have used is with the adhesive backed nail reinforcing silk that nail salons use, cut to shape, stuck on, and wetted down with cyanoacrylate, then covered with a couple of layers of cyanoacrylate to make a smooth surface. It gives a nice crisp sound.
Kits with the silk and glue are available from, for example Savarez, but they are pretty expensive considering they are just a re-packaging of stuff used in nail salons all over the world every day.
In an emergency you could probably just bop into a nail salon, talk to them very carefully about exactly what you want, and get set up that way--filing and shaping your nails yourself, of course.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
I've tried several things, including Guitar Player Nails which work decent. At the moment I use Onymyrrhe and Nailtiques 3: these have thicken and strengthened my nails pretty well. This winter was dry and I gave in to an acrylic thumb nail; I'll keep using it. I know people that use ping pong balls successfully.
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RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
loctite brand cyanoacrylate glue comes with an applicator brush in either liquid or gel. gel works well. their product/quality control is very good. to keep the container/top working smoothly put a little vaseline on the threads (do this with any product where the threads can get "gunked up").
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
I've tried several things, including Guitar Player Nails which work decent.
I want to know if they are tough to put on though??? Does anyone know? I would love to try the product, but, has to invest in the rotary filer to smoot the top...
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Kalo)
31 steps, most done with the non-dominant hand, to put on fake nails! yikes! the nail salon is looking better than ever. kalo, i think you could put on the nails without the rotary file though it would take a little longer.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
It lasts orders of magnitude longer if stored in the plastic bag
Cyanoacrylate also lasts longer if kept in the fridge. Here in Spain I have to keep it cool after opening or it goes off in a week or so. Probably lasts longer in the Washington DC winter
I have thin nails and have probably tried everything over the years. I completely agree with Ricardo that fake nails dont work and gel nails make matters worse when they eventually come off. Crazy glue (superglue) doesn't seem to weaken the nail.
Definately nutrition helps too. Eating a couple of Gelatine (jello) cubes helps as does amino acids that promote hair and nail growth.
Now I dont use Super glue any more but a product by a company called Jessica cosmetics. Its like the Rolls Royce of nail care products. They dont use formaldehyde which is what makes nails brittle with some products. I apply a coat of Jessica "Reward" every week which is a protein hardener. http://www.jessicacosmetics.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CustomBasics
This stuff is not cheap though...maybe 50 dollars for 3 months supply but I found it really works and I havent broken a nail for ages since i started to use it. Gotta follow the instructions though and let it dry properly. If your nails are really weak use the critical care every other day for a couple of months and then switch to the Reward/ glass fibre combination. Everyone has different advice but this really worked for me!
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
31 steps, most done with the non-dominant hand, to put on fake nails! yikes! the nail salon is looking better than ever. kalo, i think you could put on the nails without the rotary file though it would take a little longer.
Seriously, it seems like a lot of work to put the nails on and from what I have heard there is also a learning curve.
I was told that Grisha wears these fake nails....He has left a nice testimonial review on the website.
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Pimientito)
there is a similar product here in the usa--no more wraps. it is essentially epoxy and kevlar (pulverized). kevlar makes a great laminate as it provides strength yet has flexibility which is necessary to prevent cracking/chipping. you can get no more wraps at nail/hair care product stores as well as amazon. the other advantage to the product is that it has a matte sheen--beneficial to guys with nails.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Kalo)
Many thanks to everybody who have contributed here.
I'm still in the process of research and reluctant to use CA (because its a bit poisonous and a bit dangerous when something unexpected happens while using.)
At the moment I'm experimenting a bit with Indian Mizrabs (those wire plectra used on index, and sometimes middle finger for playing sitar). It is by its very nature constructed to equally play up- and down strokes.
I'll open another thread about this.
best
Robert
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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
I'm still in the process of research and reluctant to use CA (because its a bit poisonous and a bit dangerous when something unexpected happens while using.)
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
I've heard that Krazy Glue damages the nails even more in the long run, that's why I'm hesitating to use it.
Absolutely FALSE. What hurts the nail is premature removal, or attempts at removal. DON"T TRY TO TAKE IT OFF....as tempting as it might seem.
Perhaps the new CA glues are different from the originals but when they first became popular several of my friends and I started using them. My good friend Tom MacNab watched his nails turn bright red and fall out. It took a long time for them to grow back. I would avoid putting CA on the little half moon light area at the base of the nail (the quick). Another old trick was to put pieces of tea bag material on the nail tips and coat it with CA.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Where did you get THAT information?
Sitar picks?
Well there is a lot of it on the Classical Guitar Forum where people report about different wild things happening with their nails. Also it's superglue after all and if some mishap occurs one can be messed up a bit - so I guess.
Why not sitar picks if it can be made working? - Which I'm not totally sure of, but I consider the possibility at least. If it worked I'd prefer it over the use of CA.
_____________________________
Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
because its a bit poisonous
What? Cyano acrylate is inert when its dry. They use it in surgery to close wounds. Its completely safe as long as you are not inhaling it or something.
The only way I could imagine that someones nail were to fall off is if they accidentally stuck the nail to the flesh. You have to apply really thin coats and do so carefully. The tea bag trick or even a toilet paper works too. In Spain a common practice is to use pieces of cigarette papers and glue. (although dont ask me why the Flamencos carry so many cigarette papers ) Are you sure it was an acrylate product that caused a problem? For example you dont want to be putting 2 part bonders like Araldite on your nails...that will cause severe problems.
The natural nail is by far the best to use. I cannot imaging trying to do rasgueos and picados with sitar picks. Personally I think you are more likely to damage your finger tips or your guitar top by this experiment.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Kalo)
Many thanks to everybody who contributed here. I'm still in the process of researching the possibilities and also still reluctant to use CA (a bit poisonous and dangerous when something unexpected happens).
At the moment I'm experimenting with Indian mizrabs (the wire plectra sitar players are using on their index and sometimes middle finger). They have the advantage over all other finger picks I have ever seen that they are naturally constructed to play up- and down strokes (because that's the way how sitar is played.)
But the technique has to be different with hem and I'm checking out whether I can accommodate. I'll start another thread about this.
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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to jshelton5040)
quote:
ORIGINAL: jshelton5040
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
I've heard that Krazy Glue damages the nails even more in the long run, that's why I'm hesitating to use it.
Absolutely FALSE. What hurts the nail is premature removal, or attempts at removal. DON"T TRY TO TAKE IT OFF....as tempting as it might seem.
Perhaps the new CA glues are different from the originals but when they first became popular several of my friends and I started using them. My good friend Tom MacNab watched his nails turn bright red and fall out. It took a long time for them to grow back. I would avoid putting CA on the little half moon light area at the base of the nail (the quick). Another old trick was to put pieces of tea bag material on the nail tips and coat it with CA.
SUPERGLUE IS NOT KRAZY GLUE, NOR IS IT THE SAME AS BRUSH ON NAIL GLUE PRODUCTS.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
Roja, the 'simple act' of filing the nails and applying glue isn't just about 'protection'.
You said you 'heard' that glue damages nails but now you've heard that it doesn't, you have the chance to search for the 'right' way to file your nails, apply some glue, and Bob's yer uncle.
By all means you can visit some of the other solutions here. The solutions that layer silk, for example, are sure to be extremely protective. And they're variations on the glue. And one might try other solutions 'after' one has tried the glue and found it to be harmful in some way. Simply because, unless you have a reaction to the glue, it is so easy and it works, much better than you might imagine.
The correct filing and application of glue has transformed my playing. Search for everything Ricardo has written on filing nails - he explains it very well but you have to read it all then do it. Glue is much much more than a hardener to stop my nails splitting. It literally 'irons out' hooks. And in my case it allows me to keep my nails much shorter than I otherwise might. This would also be true of someone who preferred longer nails. And the filing method is the easiest method I have ever used, it's super fast, no farting around with complicated angles and shapes.
I file almost every day. It takes two minutes. Then the glue. I'm looking at those contraptions posted here and I'm wondering whether this is a piss-take or not. But if it is not then know that filing right and applying glue is much more important than you appear to comprehend (if you are judging on hearsay and contemplating all manner of medieval finger squishng technology.)
And all this talk about visiting the nail salons and such loses me completely. There are artificial nails that certainly do work, but it does sound like a bit of a pain and something one would do 'after' everything else has failed (and those artificial nails still require the right filing - whatever that might be, if not the 'general' solution).
Another bonus is that the glue is great for fingertips as well. I use it on my thumb (skin) when I'm going nuts on thumb work. Not only does it add 'another skin', it gives a different feel... it is very useful to me. These friction pains can interfere with proper 'attack' as one 'shrinks' a little from the pain, thus altering the actual playing/learning itself in a subtle way.
I think these threads suffer too much noise. The people who are telling you glue is okay ain't wrong. But try it, just in case... and before fitting the fingerbobs.
But thanks for posting those picks man. They've given me a great idea for a short story about a serial killer guitar player.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
SUPERGLUE IS NOT KRAZY GLUE, NOR IS IT THE SAME AS BRUSH ON NAIL GLUE PRODUCTS.
They are both cyanoacrylates. The first CA glue I used was called Vigor Aaron Alpha back in the 60's. My friend who lost his nails was the only one who did but several players developed the bright red nails before we figured out to avoid putting on the quick.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
In stead of tea bags, toilet paper or cigarette paper i used silk. It was available in the guitar shop for astronomical prices (10,- for 1X10 inch) but my multi disciplined artistic father soon discovered that tenner could buy us a square meter of silk in a super specialized painting shop for artists. Unlike the guitar shop they offered a variety of thickness so i bought various strokes of 10X100 cm in the range 0,1>0,6 mm which lasted for years. As soon as the silk came in contact with super glue it turned from white into semi transparent.
A friend of mine used to collect his nail file residue and recycled that with superglue.
It is indeed very important never to cover the white halve moon of the nail (lanula) since that is the part were the nails grows and breathes.
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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
It is indeed very important never to cover the white halve moon of the nail (lanula) since that is the part were the nails grows and breathes.
But that is the point...Nails don't BREATH!!! They don't have lungs and I am not trying to be disrespectful..This breathing thing is kind of like an "old wives tale"
Let me enlighten you all, I should know I am a gal who has a friend who does nails for a living..
When one applies acrylics to the nail in order for it to hold on to the nail you have to SCRAPE the nail bedding with a file and that is how the nail gets damaged!!!
It's not through applying acrylic product nor the glue to the entire nail, hence the nail can't breath...
It is the SCRAPING before one applies the product that temporarly damages the nails.
If one has poor nails from the beginning and they don't grow out fast then the grow out part will be tough!!!
I have worn acrylics and yes, my nails felt crappy after removing them, however, my nails grew out so fast that it took less then a month to grow out the scraped part of it...
I have also tried glue on the entire nail and it didn't do any harm to my nails at all..
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
Look, I am performing professionally and practice a lot. My nails take a lot of abuse. I am using Guitar Player Nails and they work (and sound) great. Do they sound like natural nails? Not the same, but the closest of all the other solutions I've tried. Anyway, after a while you adjust and they start feeling more natural than your own nails. They give you a lot of options in terms of shape, length, thickness, curvature and angle. They don't break and you can keep them on for a month or longer if you want (and thumb nail for over 2 months). Just add glue. I cut my natural nails to the skin. I no longer care if they are thin or damaged. I stopped using them a long time ago. Believe me, if you care about sound and feel, it's much better than any kind of finger picks.
RE: Playing Flamenco with Finger Picks (in reply to rojarosguitar)
quote:
Look, I am performing professionally and practice a lot. My nails take a lot of abuse. I am using Guitar Player Nails and they work (and sound) great. Do they sound like natural nails? Not the same, but the closest of all the other solutions I've tried. Anyway, after a while you adjust and they start feeling more natural than your own nails. They give you a lot of options in terms of shape, length, thickness, curvature and angle. They don't break and you can keep them on for a month or longer if you want (and thumb nail for over 2 months). Just add glue. I cut my natural nails to the skin. I no longer care if they are thin or damaged. I stopped using them a long time ago. Believe me, if you care about sound and feel, it's much better than any kind of finger picks.
Grisha, I just have one question!!!
Do you need to use the electric rotary file to trim them? Like say when you apply the nail it shows that an electric rotary file is need to smooth the glue part of the nail? I was hoping that a nail file sanding across could replace having to spend $49.00
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