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Beethoven listeners
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Beethoven listeners (in reply to estebanana)
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My favorite Beethoven is the Sixth, the "Pastoral." I cannot say I've heard everything Beethoven created, but of those I know, none strikes me as "flamenco," either literally or in spirit. Cheers, Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 14 2014 16:13:45
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estebanana
Posts: 9378
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Beethoven listeners (in reply to estebanana)
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The last six months I've been listening to all the quartets in depth, there's a lot to hear on second-third and forth hearings. And still you can hear more if you keep going. I think my favorite piece is the A major cello sonata. But I don't hear flamenco to much in Beethoven either, just wondered if it was me. I do hear the drive, like old Jerez bulerias with palmas that can crack an ear drum. The piano works are the ones I know least about, but that is on the list to go over and over. I've been goign at the symphonies too, but I can't decide which I like most. Why decide? I do like that big nasty d minor chord in the ninth, that should always be a shocker and shaker. --------- Beethoven and Bach and Mozart- Bach I listen to to calm myself- he's amazing, but not treacherous ground mentally. His mystery is deceptive, it seems so much on the surface and easy to get, but it's locked into his craftsmanship. I agree he is friendly for the most part. Mozart, he's like going out on the town with fine company, good red wine, good conversation; elegance that has weight and substance. He cheers me up. Mozart was John Cages favorite composer. He preferred him over Beethoven. I can't underscore too much that Mozart is pleasurable, but still profound. But I don't have to dig into it to get the goods, he brings the goods to you. Beethoven is like climbing into the Earth to explore a cave of amazing geologic structures and beauty. I can do it everyday as long as my head lamp is working and Bach is waiting at the surface. You see the regular Beethoven challenges and beauties from the path with your light. But go off the path or wander into a narrow stretch and you have to think about how to turn around and get back out. In Beethoven you find the sky underground, he turns things inside out.
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Date Mar. 14 2014 19:39:49
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runner
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
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RE: Beethoven listeners (in reply to estebanana)
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Amen to both the Choral Fantasy and the Violin Romance #2: I second the motion. I'm trying to think, though, of some piece where Beethoven totally surprises me, out of the blue--something I value highly in "classical" or "serious" music. I offer as a very few examples, in whole or part, the Brahms Piano Concerto #1 (first movement, especially), the Prokofiev Piano Concerto #2 (amazing throughout), D'Indy: Symphony on a French Mountain Air, even Mozart Piano Concerto #24 (the Glenn Gould reading), Ravel: Concerto for the Left Hand. The pure joy radiating from the third movement of Bach's Brandenburg Concerto #4 is enough to easily bring tears to my eyes: Wendy/Walter Carlos did a great job with this on the synthesizer way back when. Anybody else have some examples?
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Date Mar. 14 2014 22:56:29
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estebanana
Posts: 9378
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Beethoven listeners (in reply to estebanana)
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I think Beethoven is very much out of the blue in this late music. The Grosse Fuge, each of the late quartets has moments where you don't know what is happening next. To me it's not always about being surprised (Hadyn's 'Surprise Symphony'? ha ha) but by how many times I can go back to a piece a get more from listening. In Beethoven's early music the sfortzando in his symphonies are cool, he sneak attacks, but we've heard this so many times by later composers taking that road that we are not surprised by it today. Beethoven really took the 'get quiet then play hard' thing from earlier composers liek Mozart, but the developed it into a special expressive device, in his day it would have been and was progressive. After Beethoven everyone grabbed onto this and used it, especially the Romantic composers. They were all working out what Beethoven began when he got older. Stravinsky said the Grosse Fuge was the most modern piece of music written, of course he was bragging it up, but in his day it still was very modern. If you think of Prokofiev and Stravinsky as reacasting classical ideas, which is a great part of what they did, then Beethoven figures large in how they were thinking. A lot of Stravinsky is classical in structure, but outside harmonically. Prokofiev is similar, more like follower of Mozart. The interesting link to look at it with the Russians and the classical era is Rimky-Korsakov, he was the one they were spinning off of harmonically and getting orchestration ideas from. It's also interesting to see what Shostakovich borrows from Prokofiev. How did they put together Korsakov's late romantic harmony with Beethoven -Mozart structures? A lot of Stravinsky after the three famous ballets sounds like that to me.
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Date Mar. 15 2014 0:37:03
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