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When to Play the Really Good Guitar?   You are logged in as Guest
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wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013
 

When to Play the Really Good Guitar? 
I have a Hermanos Camps Primera A and an Ethan Deutsch: both are enjoyable to play and have their own character. It's very clear that the Deutsch is a fuller sounding, better playing instrument, but I tend to worry about it getting damaged/dinged/etc with kids + pets around the house as well as playing out; therefore, the Camps gets most of the playing time. How do you get to the point where you're comfortable playing the better quality guitar when playing opportunities arise? When I see people like Baden Powell playing guitars with soundboard damage I think to myself, "Self, even if something happens to the guitar it's still worth playing it more often than not." I would like it to be the one I play regardless of where I play, as long as I'm playing it. Thanks.

_____________________________

Wedge
Casimiro Lozano 1A
2012 Hermanos Camp Primera A
2013 Ethan Deutsch
2008 Pavan TP-30 Signature Cedar 640 mm (for sale)
2003 Chambers,spruce/Madagascar RW (for sale)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 16:45:50
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
I don't take you for the kind of person to do regular performances at rowdy bars. So I think your pretty safe. If it's in your hands it's safe, you're not gonna damage it from your playing, period. You play it at home and when your done it goes back to its safe place. If your taking it out of the house judge whether or not they'll be a safe place to put it when your not playing it. How beat up is your camps??? I live in a small apartment with rowdy beer drinking friends over regularly and my guitar has yet to be "damaged" is there a ding/scuff or two, sure, but it's in a pretty unforgiving environment. I'm sure yours is plenty safe.

Not to say NO ONE will damage a guitar by playing, Jason McGuire told me he's split a top or two but you've really gotta golpe the crap outta the thing.

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 16:57:12
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
I have two guitars by well known luthiers, now retired. They are expensive, and essentially not replaceable. You don't see many on the market by these luthiers, and when you do, they cost a bit. I've never seen another in as good condition as my favorite flamenca. These guitars mainly stay at home. They get played daily, but there are only adults in my house.

The rest can be replaced.

Have you thought of insuring your Ethan Deutsch guitar? There are a few companies that specialize in insuring musical instruments against most risks, except normal wear and tear. If you're worried about a few minor bumps and scratches, then I'm afraid the Deutsch may stay in the case. The premiums for your Deutsch ought to be fairly reasonable.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 17:06:04
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

Not to say NO ONE will damage a guitar by playing, Jason McGuire told me he's split a top or two but you've really gotta golpe the crap outta the thing.


I wonder how many whisky shots did he take.

Also to the thread starter, if you keep the guitar in a case after and before playing then you will be the only one to be able to damage the guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 17:09:54
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
quote:

It's very clear that the Deutsch is a fuller sounding, better playing instrument, but I tend to worry about it getting damaged/dinged/etc


If it was a 'Kevin Richards' I'd say to you; 'Just play the thing, anywhere, anytime. That's what its for. If you break it I'll fix it!'
Of course, Ethan might take a different view. Have you asked him?

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 17:20:17
 
wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Thanks all. No, I have not contacted Ethan about that; I figured if it gets damaged it's on me. I do put it in the case when not playing it, and dings add character

I'll work on myself to just enjoy it and not hide it away. I do play in pretty subdued places, but you know how out-of-control those hospice people get sometimes.



_____________________________

Wedge
Casimiro Lozano 1A
2012 Hermanos Camp Primera A
2013 Ethan Deutsch
2008 Pavan TP-30 Signature Cedar 640 mm (for sale)
2003 Chambers,spruce/Madagascar RW (for sale)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 17:45:45
 
pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Play em all.
Wood moves...sometimes detrimentally through misfortune but hey that's what's part of the deal with the bits of wood we as guitarists love!
My head tells me that someone has had a hand in making them....either as part of a team from a production line or as an individual luthier....and from both angles they are made to be payed.
The magic in a guitar doesn't only come from who made it but also who played it....a played guitar is a loved guitar regardless of origin...its soul comes from the hands which have adorned it since its birth!!
Get it dirty!!

Best


pink
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 19:43:33
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
To safe his first class classical concert guitar my father bought himself a nice playing Ibanez for daily use. Unfortunately he saved his concert guitar so well it remained basically untouched during the past 50 years. Later that Ibanez was lost when borrowed to a student who's cat pissed on it, so when i see your cat including avatar i smell............. danger :-).

Personally i'm not overly protective to my flamenco guitars, they are always within reach and over the years suffered lots of damages. Funny enough i'm way more careful with my rare 12 string bozo guitar which is still in mint condition. My father tends to be less overly-protective to his flamenco guitars as well so we seem to have a different relationship to our "just 1 arm length away" flamenco guitars then to our other (locked) instruments.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2014 20:27:56
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
mate.. just play it.. who cares if there's a crack or ding or scratch..
a guitar is meant to be played. unless it's a museum piece.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 4:10:45
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

To safe his first class classical concert guitar my father bought himself a nice playing Ibanez for daily use. Unfortunately he saved his concert guitar so well it remained basically untouched during the past 50 years.



In cases like this.. what's the point of having that guitar, basically untouched is just as good as saying the owner never had the guitar in the first place..
So Wedge.. just play it!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 4:12:47
 
wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
I agree. I thought often about why I would have a nice guitar if it just sits in the case all the time; I never had any issues taking my Traphagen places. I ended up playing it a lot this weekend. Maybe I should scratch it or spill something on it just to make the whole dilemma irrelevant

_____________________________

Wedge
Casimiro Lozano 1A
2012 Hermanos Camp Primera A
2013 Ethan Deutsch
2008 Pavan TP-30 Signature Cedar 640 mm (for sale)
2003 Chambers,spruce/Madagascar RW (for sale)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 4:20:35
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to HolyEvil) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

To safe his first class classical concert guitar my father bought himself a nice playing Ibanez for daily use. Unfortunately he saved his concert guitar so well it remained basically untouched during the past 50 years.


In cases like this.. what's the point of having that guitar, basically untouched is just as good as saying the owner never had the guitar in the first place..
So Wedge.. just play it!

Basically my idea so i mentioned it as a warning not to "waste" a good instrument. Still last time i heart it being played during a Christmas concert with the Doelen Symphony Orchestra the 5 minutes they joined in were totally mesmerising. It actually was 1 out of 4 times so far a beautiful sound was able to make me cry. Obviously i would have loved my father to play that instrument more often during his classical years (60ties and 70ties), before he switched to other styles and instruments like the alto guitar, lute, vihuela, baroque guitar and flamenco guitar. Those were/are the instruments he played both at home and on stage during the past 40 years. Obviously he also kept his classical guitar for special occasions and unlike his other instruments it was indeed only played in relation to concerts. You won't believe how many top class instruments are in possession of top class players like him, not being touched for various reasons. As i see it the only advantage of that guitar being not played is that 50 years later it still has it's original sound and lifespan (the lifespan of guitar like instruments seem to be very limited compared to for instance violins).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 12:17:36
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

(the lifespan of guitar like instruments seem to be very limited compared to for instance violins).


Me suspects it to be just a myth. I don´t believe in wearing out of guitars, if only they not be damaged by matters of humidity or impact.

The case of your father makes some sense, as his Ramirez is suspended for reason of genre.
Otherwise, I do hope that for instance Pepe Romero will play gems like his Torres & co at home.
It would be a pity if not.

I am guilty myself of keeping fine specimens idle, and it irks me somewhat.
As long as they be well preserved for following generations, no crime be comitted; but certainly preferable if they be put to good use by deserving players.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 15:23:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
I always play the really nice guitars. Home, gigs, party etc etc. Only time I use the cheap guitar is when I have to fly out of the area... in case I have to check it etc. Luckily my cheap guitar is nice to play and sounds good too. We have had some nice adventures, but also she suffers A LOT of damage.

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 16:54:57
 
pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I always play the really nice guitars. Home, gigs, party etc etc. Only time I use the cheap guitar is when I have to fly out of the area... in case I have to check it etc. Luckily my cheap guitar is nice to play and sounds good too. We have had some nice adventures, but also she suffers A LOT of damage.


Does the damage leave you p.issed or not...just some wood that's a tool for the feeding of the mouths around the family table or have you bonded completely still. The playing of a guitar good enough to be chosen and bought must also encourage a bond of sorts. I've got a cheap flamenco guitar but its still enough to make me want to play so the bond is apparent on a daily basis...its not my only guitar btw

Best

pink
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 17:42:14
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Buy only good (or crap) guitars, this way there aren't hard decisions to make.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 18:04:24
 
NewPlayer

 

Posts: 141
Joined: Nov. 29 2012
From: San Francisco

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
My instructor plays at bars and his advice is to practice with the 'good' luthier-made guitar and use the crappy one for gigs. (He also uses his good guitar during instruction and in some solo concerts).

This has worked well for me, because I don't get anxious leaving my guitar around during breaks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 18:15:20
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to NewPlayer) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewPlayer

My instructor plays at bars and his advice is to practice with the 'good' luthier-made guitar and use the crappy one for gigs. (He also uses his good guitar during instruction and in some solo concerts).

This has worked well for me, because I don't get anxious leaving my guitar around during breaks.


During a break, put it in the case and lock it.

Locking it is important. When I lived in the Central Pacific on a U.S. military base, I didn't know any other classical/flamenco players. My guitars were in their cases, unlocked.

An acquaintance of Larisa's showed up to work on our island. He was one of only two others who spoke Russian. He joined us for dinner at the dining hall. The polite thing was to invite him to my apartment for a drink.

Seeing the five guitar cases lined up along the wall, he headed unerringly for the most expensive one, an irreplaceable collector's item, worth more than the car I now own. He had the guitar out, strumming it before I could react.

Larisa spoke to him sternly in Russian. He reacted like the guitar had suddenly become radioactive and put it back in the case. I handed him the least expensive one, still in like-new condition, and said, "Here, have a go at this one."

He strummed a Ukrainian folk melody

Later I asked Larisa what she had said. She just smiled.

Now I'm back where I know a few other players. The etiquette is, if you have a few guitars in their cases, and there are some you don't want people fooling around with, you just lock the case. Even the clueless get the point.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2014 20:06:32
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Must say that I have never seen such behaviour like the one of my brother´s Russian friends in his domiciles ( during SU times). They would cause really expensive damages.

In the same time noone looked at me as grim like Vladimir Vissotsky when I dared to unpack and play his crappy guitar. ( Which he just loved though able to aquire any of the finest.)

Similar where I am now. I see folks damaging electronic gadgets within minutes or spoiling sensitive furniture in not time, for having little to no handling with such things.

But anyway: Always better to lock precious instruments away.
- And better keep guitars cases vertical on their side.
I ALWAYS do the latter; even bewaring of myself.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 10:05:30
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Ruphus) 
Horizontal under the bed, is there something wrong about it?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 13:18:53
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Unless there be levering of the neck ( through a too high rest in the case ) or a bending through of your beds slatted frame: Not necessarily.
( Still, with many cases not fitting ideally, I prefer storing guitars vertically, making sure there be no levering nor pressure on the top.)

I was however rather meaning open placement of your guitar case. Like beside the table, in corridors, etc.
When the case is left on its back side ( in the way you put it when opening the lid) the guitar is prone to damage through any weight that could end up on the lid.

Like someone stumbling and stepping on it. ( Been there.)
That together with guitars deposited on sofas, ought to bear high potential of destroying them.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 15:04:51
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Ruphus) 
I dont believe that levering thing. The guitar already has 40kg pulling the neck at an angle so I highly doubt that adding less than the guitar weight as a force thats pushing the back of the neck will do anything.

OTOH, ferocious sexual activity could dismantle the bed and hit the guitar case (although this ABS material seems pretty sturdy).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 15:36:15
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

The guitar already has 40kg pulling the neck at an angle ...


That differes from points of constant levering. More even over time with additional adaption through climate changes.
One can ignore the eventuality, but I speculate that a part of neck or fingerboard adjustments to stem from horizontal storing in not fittting cases.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 15:49:20
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Ruphus) 
Wether the point of levering is at the headstock or heel, that force will always be much less than the weight of the guitar. It would be around the same difference has changing string brand/tension.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 16:03:56
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Check out vector equation and discover factors of direction and angle.
Their effects may surprise.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 21:02:07
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Ruphus) 
That's what I used as argument for my theory.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 21:37:34
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to wedge) 
Not really.
Check it out.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 23:38:22
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: When to Play the Really Good Guitar? (in reply to Ruphus) 
Without drawing any shapes...

Just think of the magnitude of the forces at play on a guitar (discarding stress related forces), you'll have:

1. The tension of the strings (around 40kg)

2. Gravity pulling the guitar, which is the same as the weight of the guitar (around 1,5kg)



There's absolutely no vectorial angle/shape you can think of where the 1,5kg will do anything significant to the 40kg happening on the guitar's face.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2014 23:55:57
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