Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar FOr Flamenco

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Quill

Posts: 46
Joined: Nov. 2 2013

Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar FOr F...

Hi,

Some of you may know about my issues finding a flamenco guitar with a small enough neck. I think I might have found two. Could you give me your opinions on their suitability to play flamenco.

I was looking for a nylon string guitar with a small neck and low action. I looked up all kinds of flamenco and even small classical guitars. One store suggested 580mm to 615mm size. Surprise, really hard to find one unless I go for a more expensive (for me) classical guitar and take the chance on lowering the action.

Then I found out about Rodrigo y Gabriela's signature line for Yamaha. The problem is the one marketed for flamenco is the regular size and shape of neck.

The one played by Rod is like an electric-acoustic hybrid marketed for all kinds of music - Latin but not flamenco. I could play other kinds of music on it while learning flamenco and hymns. The best thing is the 48 size as opposed to the NXC's 52. The neck is very thin and radiused like an electric guitar. It has nylon strings. It is marketed as having a low action. Rod plays very fast with a pick, so I wonder about finger style.

Here is it. What do you think?

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 0:52:43

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

The Rodrigo has a 48MM nut which leads me to believe the string spacing is pretty tight, in other words harder to finger pick. I really think your over analyzing it though. Grab a yamaha CG and be done with it LOL. Is there no guitar center near you that you can play a few?

My experience.
I played electric for 12 years before flamenco and when I wanted to learn flamenco I went into shopping for a flamenco with this idea of exactly what I needed and I got exactly that. After a year or so of learning flamenco I realized that guitar was everything I didn't want……...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 1:12:54

Quill

Posts: 46
Joined: Nov. 2 2013

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

Hi Lenador,

None of the guitar shops anywhere near me carry flamenco guitars. I live in a medium-sized city in the southern US, not a big city. I could order this guitar from Guitar City's website and return it to the brick-and -mortar is I need to.

I don't want to get dinged for 2 way postage and restock fees for opened guitars if I don't have to. I've found a very few flamenco's on regular guitar websites. I can't beginto afford the ones on flamenco specific websites. Then, I'd still need another guitar eventually to play hymns, et cetera in addition to flamenco or instead if I don't like flamenco or can't pay for those expensive Skype lessons.

So many decisions and what ifs.

Lenador, I overthink everything so why should flamenco be any different .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 1:28:26

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

That rodrigo guitar wont sound like a real flamenco guitar, not even like a yamaha flamenco guitar. And it is more suitable for pic.
Also you need a tap plate for flamenco guitars for the Golpes.
And i bet the action and setup isn't that good too and isn't suitable for flamenco.

If i were you (and if i were really interested at least in some kind of real flamenco guitar music and the typical sound of a flamenco guitar), i would simply buy a yamaha CG171SF flamenco guitar online for $300 shipped to you.

Like this one currently available at ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-CG172SF-Flamenco-Guitar-w-hard-case-MINT-condition-played-under-20-hrs-/141116340229?pt=Guitar&hash=item20db307805

If you should see flamenco is not the right thing for you, you can still play other things on it or you could easily resell it on ebay for around $250 or (or even for the same price you bought it.

Of course, prepare yourself to get "dissapointed" a bit at the beginning, since you can't play anything. Everything will seam hard to play, etc.
Specially flamenco techniques need a lot of time and practice.
But with enough passion and hard work, you will eventually make the guitar sound good and have a lot of joy and fun.

Also buy a simple cheap Dunlop Capo, you will need it in flamenco.
(you could even start with capo on second fret or something, will make it easier for your hands)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunlop-Toggle-6-String-Professional-Guitar-Capo-for-Flat-Fingerboards-14F-/161120950878?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item25838e9a5e

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 6:43:50

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Arash)

I think the only guitar that can be called hybrid guitar for flamenco is a flamenco negra or blanca with a cutaway to reach upper frets

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 11:09:10

Quill

Posts: 46
Joined: Nov. 2 2013

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

Thank you guys! I guess the Yamaha CG172SF is it then for flamenco, especially since I now know I COULD play stuff other than flamenco on it. I would like to play flamenco first, just for the passion and to get the hand positions and techniques right, and then if hymns don't work out on this guitar or I want to eventually upgrade, I can get another guitar w/o having spent an arm and a leg on it. Okay, I'm convinced and ready to do this.

Thanks to all who replied.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 19:12:30

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

quote:

Thank you guys! I guess the Yamaha CG172SF is it then for flamenco, especially since I now know I COULD play stuff other than flamenco on it.

Well, you started out by saying you needed a smaller guitar. The Yamaha 172SF is full size - 650/52. I recommended a good smaller guitar on your other thread - the Cordoba Dolce.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 19:28:52

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

You're not any smaller then these kids are you?????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 20:48:57

Quill

Posts: 46
Joined: Nov. 2 2013

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

Those kids are secretly freakishly large. It's a quantum trick like the Tardis.

I tried to find the Dolce. I tried other Cordoba models, and it wasn't bad at all.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2013 4:32:35

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

A hybrid guitar for classical and flamenco music is neither fire nor water. It is a guitar that tends to anything else than muy flamenco. Classical music on a blanca sounds a bit weird because of weak basses. I had used a negra providing an interesting sound on classical music.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2013 15:57:54

Quill

Posts: 46
Joined: Nov. 2 2013

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

Thank you, Bernd. I think I'll get a Yamaha CG12SF. It's cheap enough that after learning flamenco for a while, I should be able to afford a lower end but decent classical for other music. I have to order the Yamaha to be sure of fit and comfort, but so far it does seem to be the best initial option.

Does the negra sound good for both classical and flamenco or does it sound weird?

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2013 17:15:03

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

quote:

Does the negra sound good for both classical and flamenco or does it sound weird?

A classical purist will tell you it's still not warm enough. A smart person will tell you it's fine.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2013 17:54:11

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

At the beginning (even with the perfect guitar) simply holding a guitar and getting your hands into position may feel awkward and difficult, this is normal, please don't be discouraged it's worth persevering!

Sanchis now offer custom scale lengths; 660,650,640,630.
http://www.hermanossanchislopez.com/prueba/tienda/en/16-caracteristicas

However my humble suggestion to a beginner would be to start with a more 'standard' 650mm scale/52mm nut.

(I prefer a 670mm scale, my hands are medium; glove size 8 1/2)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2013 13:55:39

tapit45

Posts: 6
Joined: Apr. 29 2013

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

I have had similar problems in finding a store with flamenco guitars.
A recent trip to Guitar Center in Tampa proved deceptive. Their "Large
room full of flamenco and classical guitars" turned out to be a bathroom-
size closet with just a few nylon string instruments.

I need a guitar in the same price range as you but due to
shoulder rotator cup tears and my stomach
it has to be more of a thin body type.

Appreciate any suggestions.(I am switching from
acoustic silk-on-steel) and love this forum!

Rich

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2013 14:48:32

Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011

RE: Need Opinions on Hybrid Guitar F... (in reply to Quill)

Quill, other music sounds great on flamenco guitars. It's very difficult to find classical guitars that play easy without a big spend, and lots of luck. The priorities are slightly different. Yamaha provide wonderful price to quality ratios. It will take you a long way.

On learning. This place is a goldmine. People are always willing to offer a lead.

Use the search. You'll learn a lot. Many terrific threads. And you'll meet a lot of different characters. It is often the most heated debates where I learn most. The different angles help me to make sense of it.

On teachers. I had six lessons 25 years ago. I'm still working on the same things.

Classical was my background. The best teachers I've ever seen were Carl Sagan, David Russel, my old karate teacher, and Ricardo.

I would seriously advise a budget. Then pile up the money and figure out how many lessons you can get from Ricardo.

It's a bit like sculpting a block of wood. I didn't get to David Russel until masterclass stage. It's about mastering basics. You get on the road instantly with flamenco; the fancy stuff is meaningless without just a simple rhythm. Russel said the thing that mattered to him when Williams gave him a masterclass was simply sitting beside someone who could actually do it.

Beginners deserve the best teachers.

And if he isn't working a 90-week there's a guy here who turns everything into bulerias. That'll get them all shaking on some sunny Sunday morning.

Listening is everything. A slomo app for my phone has been invaluable. And buy a metronome before the guitar. I use earphones but if you go analog get a loud one with a good thick thwack.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2013 15:07:17