picado question

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picado question

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rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

picado question

ok I have always read that too much picado practice can damage the hands. here is my problem. a few years ago I severed a tendon in my index finger and had four surgeries to put it back together. The result is that normally you have two tendons that control flexation in yr index finger and I know have one. in most cases I cant use that finger very well at all. I have managed to put together arpeggios and some picado, but can play for more than about 30 seconds without losing control or acquiring pain.
in the old days a lot of picado was done with the thumb. so here is the question. should I forget about standard picado that is I and m and do picado runs with the thumb only/ if I break that remaining tendon I will basically be done. Can picado actually do that amount of damage to your hand/
I don't mind striving but like I said I don't want to break that remaining tendon either. I know probably none of your are doctors but yr opinion is worth a lot. thank you in advance.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2013 22:16:48

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: picado question (in reply to rickm)

quote:

ok I have always read that too much picado practice can damage the hands.

I don't know where you read this but that has to be absolutely wrong.

If you're using your thumb it's no longer picado, it's pulgar. Doing pulgar can not substitute for picado, it's a different sound entirely. If you're doing picado properly it shouldn't hurt anything ever, if anything after a lot of picado practice my arm hurts not my hands. But not bad just a lil burn like sprinting. RELAX YOUR HAND, biggest thing ever, if your practice requires a lot of muscle and tenseness you're doing it wrong.....

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2013 22:35:46

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: picado question (in reply to rickm)

To much practice of whatever can damage your body when you neglect the limitations of your physics. When Nuñez breaks his index nail or can't use it for one reason or the other he simply uses another finger combination. I'm sure he can play a picado run using ma or if he wants his thump :-)

One line of playing that might be interesting to you is combining the thump with a finger. It's a bit like playing with a plectrum using the thump nail for the down strokes and a finger for the upstrokes. Modern day lute players often use this technique favoring the thump and the index. It also allows you to involve/use the bigger muscles of your arm rather then using the muscles of the finger itself by using the mass of arm/wrist rotation/lifting. You could try pi or pm. Make sure not to overdo in the beginning. I use similar techniques to play/vary my pulgar with index upstrokes most of the time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 5:34:55

rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

RE: picado question (in reply to rickm)

I have tried substituting but not really worked at it a large degree I notice Jason macquire is as fast with his thumb as he is with his picado and so it makes me think that the thumb alone might be workable for me, like I said I don't want to break the remaining tendon.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2013 22:14:59

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: picado question (in reply to rickm)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rickm

I notice Jason macquire is as fast with his thumb as he is with his picado and so it makes me think that the thumb alone might be workable for me, like I said I don't want to break the remaining tendon.

Considering your situation (and fearing you meant to say "i can't..." in stead of "i can...." in your first post) that line of thinking seems very sensible. I once damaged a tendon of my a finger when a dancer required 4 hours of constant rasguado (on top of wanting me to play more forceful then i favored to do myself). It healed (after months of rest) but every time i play more then i'm used to that weak spot might start complaining again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2013 9:33:51

Tomas

Posts: 22
Joined: Aug. 16 2013

RE: picado question (in reply to rickm)

You should probably get a doctor's opinion.

For what it's worth, I think it's doable to develop your style more around the thumb for melodic work rather than picado. Fast picado runs are nice but not essential, and if you develop your thumb technique, including upstrokes, or i finger upstrokes as Erik suggested, you'll still be able to do scale runs.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2013 9:37:29

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: picado question (in reply to Tomas)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomas

For what it's worth, I think it's doable to develop your style more around the thumb for melodic work rather than picado.

That's worth a lot..... You can indeed make your own material, exploiting your strong points and avoiding your weak points. It's pretty annoying when you can not use your index to much but you can create ways around it. Manitas de Plate played some pretty impressive ami,ami,ami arpeggios using 1 sliding finger only. Paco de Lucia favors his middle finger and when the situation allows it he plays important notes with that finger a couple of times in a row. Some pretty good players have found ways around their weaknesses and with a good thump you can cover a lot of ground. I never studied Jason but it is possible to play 1 string alzapua with the thump doing both the up and down strokes with or without arm/wrist involvement. Like others i also started to integrate alzapua like upstrokes/plugging with the left hand. If you develop your own way of playing and tell a good story the sky is the limit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2013 9:58:14

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: picado question (in reply to rickm)

If you are more in to Moraito type of playing, you don't need much picado anyway. He was more of a Pulgar/Arpeggio guy and his groovy accentuated jerez style didn't need much picados, and if he played picados, then mostly short bursts, mostly on 1 or 2 strings. Thats also why his long i,m finger nails weren't that much hindering for him (they normally would have been for a guy who plays a lot of picados all over the strings fast) and those nails probably even added something to his characteristic sharp sound.

Compromises are always possible and sometimes even necessary.

For instance (even though many don't agree) i still believe that a tiny little longer nails than the best length for picado are on the other hand better for tremolo. But obviously you have to chose one nail length. So it is some kind of a compromise.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2013 10:27:08