RE: PDL says you dont need to study !

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Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
didn't like both of them, mainly because that capital amplifier did not include tonal influence of any kind (only 2 inputs and a volume button).

The big problem with this idea is the loudness curve, how we hear differently at different levels.

An other problem is that it assumes every record/cd comes with perfect (personalized) settings. I guess one can put an equalizer between both amplifiers but people who spend over 100.000,- on a set seem to be allergic for any kind of tonal influence. They proudly played a self made recording of a concert violinist that soundwise did not impress me at all but was good enough to show it was indeed a (not so well played) violin.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 2:04:12

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to guitarbuddha)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 2:30:59

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Guest)

Thanks for the interview.

"¿Puristas? Diría talibanes, no nos dejaban mover y eso va contra la vida misma."

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 3:38:12

Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Miguel, have you tried high quality in-ear monitors? I use them all day at work. I use comply tips. They provide a perfect seal without resorting to artificial noise reduction. The Swiss hearing-aid company make a line called Audeo. They have a $600 model (and even a custom fit, for more money.)

I have their $80 version and they are astonishing. I took out the filters and they're better.

On bass, you're right but good speakers do produce good bass. I prefer using studio speakers. Adams have models that are way better value than hi-fi mainstream.

Richard, I once watched an experiment where people could't tell the difference. But the cost of such systems is insane.

I mostly listen to mp3s or digital radio in real life. It's the 'seal' I think, that counts. In-ear provides what would cost hundreds of thousands in a big room.

My kid has a ps3. I might see if I can try some Beethoven's 7th, if the recordings are out there.

I don't pay much attention to sound quality anymore. BBC iPlayer does a good job over wifi. (I'm assuming the PS3 plays that format. The new PS4 doesn't even play normal CDs.

Shroomy, thanks for the translation. A good read. As was the earlier review someone posted. Best review I ever read of anything. I think maybe he liked it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 4:25:33

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Guest)

@ Shroomy726 Thanks for taking the time for us to translate it!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 9:45:59

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Guest)

Thanks for the translation.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 10:26:34

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

In reply to Jernigan

quote:

As I said, I evaluate by listening. If you prefer to proceed by taking votes among strangers, that is certainly your prerogative.

I don't consider them strangers at all. Far from it as I know that as lovers of the nylon string guitar their ears are attuned to the variety of subtle sounds those instruments are capable of and hence their assessment of the medium is of high value. In your case it might be your hearing aid is having a negative effect on your perception.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 10:44:11

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

So many of the players who I admire never had teachers.....and never studied...........

And these same people grew up in families of professional players or gifted amateurs............ who played with them and gave them tips and stuff throughout their childhood.......

I guess we need journalists to make sense of this for us.............................................................................

I don't speak Spanish.......but then neither did my father or my brothers.
I guess the best way to learn would be to avoid Spanish teachers or study.

Because I have Spanish friends who can speak Spanish....and they didn't have teachers........although their whole family spoke Spanish to them their whole lives.........

Huumphhhhhhhhh.

D.

I thought it might be a timely to reiterate my thoughts.

And since we had a brief digression on logic earlier.

'All post office boxes are red.
I am dressed in red am I a post office box ?'

'Paco can't read and he is the best player in the world.
You can read and I cannot. Am I therefore more authentic than you ?'

I for one am happy to be lead by the nose by music journalists.

D.

An afterthough.

'Ignorant people are easier to exploit.
I want to exploit people therefore I should encourage ignorance?'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 13:43:09

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Erik van Goch)

per guitarbuddha

quote:

'Paco can't read and he is the best player in the world.

How did he learn to play the Aranjuez? I read it somewhere recently but can't remember where. He accepted an offer to play it in Japan and then forgot about it and only had a month to learn it so he went to Mexico for peace and quiet I guess. I didn't quite understand how he managed it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 14:48:58

Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

per guitarbuddha

quote:

'Paco can't read and he is the best player in the world.

How did he learn to play the Aranjuez? I read it somewhere recently but can't remember where. He accepted an offer to play it in Japan and then forgot about it and only had a month to learn it so he went to Mexico for peace and quiet I guess. I didn't quite understand how he managed it.

He learned it by ear. If you actually know how to read and play, you can realized the score is some BS. Poor blind pianist wrote that song and it shows. EVERY player has to adapt some things, it's quite amusing when you get into it. I mainly used my ear too when I learned it in college. Some interpretations I heard are rhythmically ATROCIOUS. Paco learns faster than the rest of us cuz his rhythm is so good, and knowledge of the neck. Some details were filled in by his friend the great classical player jose maria gallardo del rey...who also conducted the orchestra for some performances. My guess would be a single afternoon Paco could have got it all straight with a guy showing him slowly right in front of him. I am sure the "month" spent learning that piece in mexico involved lots of spear fishing.

The actual guitar parts are only a few minutes of music if you leave out all the rests waiting for orchestra. Nuñez was gonna record it long ago, and I remember him playing the entire piece (minus the orchestra part waiting) super fast just to demo his version for us, in about 6 minutes. Of course he would not play it that fast in performance, but it was more to show us his ideas, as I said every player must adapt things. Hearing so many classical players struggle on it, and worse, so many novice classical guitar fans go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and freakin on about it like it is THE be all end all of classical guitar, is painful.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 15:05:04

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

He learned it by ear. Some details were filled in by his friend the great classical player jose maria gallardo del rey...who also conducted the orchestra for some performances.

Oh yeah, he mentioned taking some recordings by classical players tho he didn't like their use of rubato and he was going to interpret the rhythm It would be interesting to know whose recordings he listened to. Anyway an amazing feat!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 15:14:58

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Ricardo)

He said he would spear fish until noon and after fried Red Snapper work on learning the piece until midnight. I prefer his to all the rest.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 15:22:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

It would be interesting to know whose recordings he listened to.

Probably the same ones we all check out when learning it.... Yepes (the worst IMO), Parkening, Williams, Barrueco, etc etc. There was one german dude I remember had better rhythm than the rest, but bad naily tone. Sigfreid something or other. Williams was probably the best model, but it was funny how the tricky spots he simplified to a ridiculous level. Like the fast strum chord I make fun of bream for, he puts that an octave lower.

But I found him playing more in his level to be perfect and taste wise it is less abrasive for me.

while I know to everybody it SEEMS amazing paco learned it so fast, but honestly, the music he NORMALLY plays is orders of magnitude more challenging to pull off than Aranjuez. Some of the rhythmically challenged reviewers praised Paco's interpretation because it was FASTER than most others.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 15:37:52

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Like the fast strum chord I make fun of bream for, he puts that an octave lower.

I had thought it was to give a much more resonant sound as playing it as written it doesn't sound musical i.e. the sound is like playing a washboard. I can't believe he couldn't play it in the higher register.

Some years ago the Guitar foundation Journal had a piece by a guy who compared several recordings to the score and noted where they had been simplified mainly leaving out notes in a chord. Also the tempi Rodrigo indicated can't be played on a guitar (at least by classical players

)
Bream wrote in his A Life on the Road that he played it and when he explained this to the conductor the guy was VERY condescending and in performance when they came to the final movement the conductor played at Rodrigo's tempo and Bream had to struggle to keep up. Which he found unforgivable.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 15:56:07

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shroomy726
It is not a music that a conservatory can explain and say: ‘this is good and this is how you play it’. My experience tells me it is not like this, it tells me that you do not always know how to continue and so you have to invent it; to play without knowing exactly the path. There are no doubts: Flamenco needs the heart.

In my opinion one does not exclude the other. When Paco Peña first talked about annotating flamenco with my father Paco honestly believed flamenco could not be expressed in written notes. So my father showed him various examples of period music (playing both the written version and the various ways he could interpret them) which made Paco realize the same argument applies to all kinds of music: without severe knowledge of the music involved (based on many hours of listening/feeling/playing/understanding) and without putting your heart and soul in it not any kind of music will come alive, nor in- or outside a conservatory.

When i entered conservatory i was 22 years old, i played the guitar for 13 years and from those 13 years 4 were solely spend on (ear)playing flamenco, something i really really put my heart and soul into on a daily base... with zero results. In that period of time (70ties) living outside Spain mend you had only access to a handful of (solo) flamenco recordings on LP or written scores (cd, video and internet did not exist yet). In my case i had a knowledgeable father as well, but unfortunately i showed no interest in music theory/didactics and studying music/technique at all. I just ear played whatever i was able to trace on my guitar. As i know now i had an excellent ear for melody/harmony but a blind spot for all other aspects of music making involved like technique/rhythm/tonal quality.

At the time (despite playing flamenco with heart and soul over a 4 year period) i would not have been able to understand most of what is shared on the foro. I was not able to name/picture myself a singe style (Soleares? Tarantas?), i had no clue there was something like compas or that a soleares fallows cycles of 12 beats, my rhythm was a mess and i played picado with 1 finger (and that was one of my better techniques). I would not have known the meaning of 3/4 or 4/4 (during my audition i named it hoempapa and hoempapapa) or what to picture myself when someone told me to play a C or a C chord. My only knowledge (aside my ability to ear play most things i heard instantly) was that i was able to name the open strings. I did not need to know the chord names because unlike the readers i could find the chords of any pop song blindfolded in any key they choose (the readers often were in despair when the singers selected a different key then the one chosen by their chord book or unintentionally changed key halfway the piece, which offered no problem to me as long as they did not select quarter tones).

That was my level of playing/understanding when i entered conservatory. I shared the class with 10 others that could play the guitar way better then i did and already knew the names and the compas of most styles. Despite the fact that in my ears they all played as good as Paco Peña we all had to start from scratch, both technically and musically. We all were very reluctant to do my fathers technique exercises because that was considered to be theory and killing the heart and soul. Most of them (but me) changed their opinion when we discovered that all the top players we met did similar exercises (i only started to take them more seriously when i run into structural technical problems a couple of years later). Non of them (but me) showed an interest in learning music theory, which in my case included learning to recognize/name/practice/annotate notes, chords, rhythms, compas. On top (despite my innital lack of interest) i learned the THEORY of left and right hand strategy and interpretation which highly improved my level of playing. They made me aware there was something like rhythm and tonal quality, i learned the names/compas of many styles and how to interpret them the correct way (there are many many ways you can misplay/interpret them when you only put in your heart and soul but lack the talent to spot your numerous black spots).

I can assure you it is extremely rewarding when you are able to read written scores made by the very best, showing you the exact notes, rhythm, left and right hand strategy and interpretation based on a lifetime of experience of both Paco Peña and my father. It basically allows you to look inside the head of the very best, especially when you have the luxury to met them on a weekly/monthly base for personal coaching. It raised my level from being a total amateur to (semi) professional levels. Still the teachers consider the course as just a start for future personal development... a future development supported by (potentially) professionally trained hands and minds and the didactical knowledge of how and what to study.

When we had to learn Paco's Solea por bulerias like usual it took me 3 hours to memorize that piece from paper. Some parts were so complex i had to conceptualize them on paper before i was able to understand what was going on. One of the other students (years ahead on me in technique and in understanding flamenco) suffered the same problem of conceptualization. Unlike me he was not able to analyze it on paper and as a result it took him not 3 hours but many months to learn that piece. The same applied to a tricky tientos variation we learned. Despite being years behind on the others i was the only one playing it correctly because i was the only one able to conceptualize it on paper, allowing me to see/understand were my brain tricked me (in the same way it tricked all others).

When i entered a dance school i was submitted to numerous rhythmic patterns not practiced by me before. On top the teacher made numerous mistakes in compas and individual beats which was not a big help in understanding what was going on. Fortunately i have a natural ability to feel when something is correct and when not. I simply recorded all the lessons and every time a pattern came out correctly i annotated it on paper. Some dance parts went wrong almost every time and sometimes it took many takes before i was able to capture the last black spots of the choreography. The end result was a written score of the complete piece showing all the the patterns in the correct order. It allowed me to understand the events more quickly, to compose music that really supported the dance (both on the field of inspiration as well on the field of didactics, when possible correcting the teachers lack of didactical skills) and it allowed me to share that knowledge with other players joining in (if they showed an interest and were able to read rhythm).

So in short conservatory showed me a totally different way of looking at music/flamenco and made me a 1.000.000 times better then i was before. They did not kill my individuality (nor my heart and soul) all they did was hand me many many tools to express myself the most optimal way, first of all by pointing out and helping me solve my technical and musical lacks of skills. Harmony lessons did not change my compositions, but the lessons in technique, rhythm and interpretation i received highly improved my level of playing and composing. Technique and interpretation in a way are theory based as well, not meaning everybody has to use the same fingers, hand position, intonation, notes and interpretation etc, but MY experience is that only a limited amount of people (like Paco de Lucia) are able to play the guitar with a natural technique "out of the blue" and without making numerous translation mistakes between thought and execution. Conservatory doesn't offer you instant solutions for all your problems and there is still a lot you have to discover yourself, but they can help you to develop yourself more structurally. Conservatory (like real life experience) can be a perfect start for a musical career but it obviously is not the only way and basically nothing more then just a first step in a future career as an individual (heart based) musician. Obviously Spain hosts many many players way more capable as me, but i believe there are also lots of players that will struggle to play some of the stuff i learned to play (and i play less then 2 hours a week). Why should listening to records of top players be better then receiving private lessons of them on a conservatory? Obviously when they basically live in your house 24/7 it's an other thing, especially when you study 12 hours a day on top of it. Even paco plays the same stuff over and over again, the same notes, the same interpretation, ... only over time interpretation will change. His involvement with others did not kill his individuality but inspired him to develop and to get the very best out of himself (like conservatory did with me). In the same way music theory did not kill the individuality and heart of Bach, Mozart, de Falla and Ridrigo like Shakespeare did not suffer from his ability to write and read.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 16:13:01

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

per guitarbuddha

quote:

'Paco can't read and he is the best player in the world.

How did he learn to play the Aranjuez?

Obviously he has an excellent ear but i believe he translated classical based stuff (de falla?) from written scores to tabs, something i did as well when i was not able to read notes yet... my father made me a translation chard showing were the notes were located, i translated each note to tabs and when translation was done started playing the piece. As it turned out the original score of the Harry Sacksioni piece i selected did not please me at all (a lot of notes were left out to bring it into reach of more players) and it's poor quality basically made me lose interest in written scores for years (those theory based idiots obviously had no ear for music).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 16:50:34

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

per guitarbuddha

quote:

'Paco can't read and he is the best player in the world.

How did he learn to play the Aranjuez? I read it somewhere recently but can't remember where. He accepted an offer to play it in Japan and then forgot about it and only had a month to learn it so he went to Mexico for peace and quiet I guess. I didn't quite understand how he managed it.

He learned it by ear.

Not so, see Francisco Sanchez video where Paco explains he learned to read music in order to play the Aranjuez, using a text book to help him decipher the notation.

Also in Light and Shade video he makes of point of wanting to play it *'exactly as it was written'* in the score to do it justice, not taking liberties, not simplified or with incorrect rhythmical interpretation that he felt many former interpretations were guilty of.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 16:57:40

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

How did he learn to play the Aranjuez?

I read an interview/article ages ago which I think must have been about how he did the arrangements for his Manuel de Falla album.

He said he took an orchestral score and a "learn guitar book 1" with a diagram showing how the little black dots corresponded to the frets and strings of the guitar and figured it out from there.

From that he must have some familiarity with dots.... probably still way quicker for him to learn by ear though....

Edit: oh, hello, while I was writing that two other posts have popped up. I thought it must have been the Manuel de Falla album 'cos other people are saying here he learned Aranjuez by ear.... maybe he did the same thing for both....

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 17:03:58

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

I have only heard the Williams recording with Ormandy and Paco's but here is a classical mag's survey of most if not all the offerings up until publication.
It is not too excited by Paco's which is called the flamenco version. extracting his conclusions on Paco;
The Flamenco Choice: Paco de Lucía; Orquesta de Cadaqués / Edmon Colomer (Philips 510 301-2)

Paco de Lucía may be a little fast and loose with the letter of Rodrigo’s masterpiece but captures its spirit like no other. The playing is passionate, fresh and, from a certain point of view, utterly authentic.

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/focus/rodrigo%E2%80%99s-concierto-de-aranjuez-collection

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 17:45:05

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

In reply to Jernigan

quote:

As I said, I evaluate by listening. If you prefer to proceed by taking votes among strangers, that is certainly your prerogative.

I don't consider them strangers at all. Far from it as I know that as lovers of the nylon string guitar their ears are attuned to the variety of subtle sounds those instruments are capable of and hence their assessment of the medium is of high value. In your case it might be your hearing aid is having a negative effect on your perception.

I formed my opinions on the subject 20 years ago, long before my hearing began to deteriorate noticeably. As I recollect, you are five or six years older than I am. On another forum you complained of hearing difficulties. Have you gotten hearing aids yet, or are you still struggling?

I strongly recommend hearing aids if you can find a good audiologist to set them up. Mine has clients from the University of Texas Music School faculty. She has been quite cooperative and knowledgeable.

As you may know, Charles Mokotoff on the Classical Guitar Forum suffered severe hearing loss as a teenager due to an illness, but went on to become a professional classical guitarist for several years. He works in information technology at the National Institutes of Health now, but still concertizes regularly in the Washington DC area.

Charles plays at a very high level. He said he was doing Bach's 4th Lute Suite for concerts this year. I saw Adam Holzman perform it last month during his faculty recital at the University of Texas. It's quite a handful.

I had lunch with Charles last year. We talked a good bit about hearing aids for musicians.
I'm sure he would be glad to give you some pointers.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 18:19:14

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo
maybe he did the same thing for both....

Paco's own words:

'I had to learn this concierto without knowing how to read a stave. I came here with a music book that indicated the meaning of each note in the score. I played for 12 hours in a row everyday for a month'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 18:42:15

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Blondie#2)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blondie#2
Also in Light and Shade video he makes of point of wanting to play it *'exactly as it was written'* in the score to do it justice, not taking liberties, not simplified or with incorrect rhythmical interpretation that he felt many former interpretations were guilty of.

One can wonder how he could know that, other than the fact he felt their interpretations did not capture the spirit of the piece. As a matter of fact my classical trained/theory loving/conservatory teaching father thinks it's a shame that Paco tried to stick to the original so much because he would have preferred Paco to be more Paco de Lucia in those pieces, enriching them with his musical intellect and personality even more.... quite the opposite wish of killing individuality and/or playing without the heart.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 18:59:16

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

There was one german dude I remember had better rhythm than the rest, but bad naily tone. Sigfreid something or other.

That would be Siegfried Behrend’s recording from 1966 with the Berlin Philharmonic of which the Gramophone article I posted recently said this;
Siegfried Behrend’s recording from 1966 with the Berlin Philharmonic.,... It’s very fast but Behrend still finds time to indulge in some extra ornamentation in the first movement. Sound interesting and I was amazed to find a LP on amazon very reasonable and the vinyl is supposed to be vg.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 19:11:40

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

On another forum you complained of hearing difficulties. Have you gotten hearing aids yet, or are you still struggling?

I have adapted as I remember you saying yours was too bright and I wouldn't like that. Also I live in a backwater on the Jersey cape and their is no point in doing anything without competent people as you have access to.
I watch foreign films (mostly French) as they come with subtitles. This cuts me off from any film English language mostly but not always. If I need to understand someone and can't I tell them so. Otherwise I just nod and pretend to understand.
I know I can't hear overtones any more and the days of listening to a Segovia recording as I remember doing during the days when you could actually play a vinyl disc (or pressing as the audiophiles say) before you buy and leaving the shop in a daze the effect was such are over , really over. But you squeeze whatever there is to be gotten from life.

quote:

As you may know, Charles Mokotoff on the Classical Guitar Forum suffered severe hearing loss as a teenager due to an illness, but went on to become a professional classical guitarist for several years.

Yes I know of him from the late Classical Corner AG forum sadly missed. You could post on flamenco or of course classical without arousing the ire of the faithful. It's interesting that Charles could play so well on a part time basis. He's very good but I imagine getting a foot hold in the world of classical guitar is a daunting prospect. You may have read Practicing by Glenn Kurtz whose experience somewhat parallels Charles. I found Kurtz's early years knocking about Europe interesting as indeed the early struggles of an artist are. I have been reading biography's of Wilde, Rimbaud, Duras, Gide, Klossowski Proust and others. Well of course Gide and Proust had plenty of money so it wasn't that kind of struggle.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 19:49:51

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

I have adapted as I remember you saying yours was too bright and I wouldn't like that. Also I live in a backwater on the Jersey cape and their is no point in doing anything without competent people as you have access to.

The brightness was on the first iteration. I have been back to the audiologist a few times to get them dialed in. After paying a fairly stiff price for the aids themselves, the subsequent adjustment sessions have been free. I tested them out by going to the symphony, chamber music and guitar concerts, then I went back for fine tuning. I feel that I have them dialed in pretty well now.

I'm playing the guitar again. It remains to be seen how far I will get. I'm playing easy classical stuff like the Ponce Preludes and a couple of Villa Lobos Preludes more or less OK. I'm getting through Falla's "Homenaje", but not reliably up to speed yet. The Escudero, Sabicas and Ramon Montoya flamenco stuff I used to play is still a bit beyond me, but I'm making progress. As long as progress continues, I'm happy.

I started with the same audiologist on annual visits back to Texas while I lived on the remote tropical island, because I was having trouble with conversations in the noisy dining hall. The hearing aids fixed that right away.

When I retired and came back to Texas I made a few more visits to the audiologist, since I now have a way of testing the music settings. It has made a really positive difference for me.

Mokotoff could suggest a way to find the nearest good music-friendly audiologist. There is an organization for hearing-impaired musicians that he belongs to. He is on this forum:

http://www.classicalguitarforum.com

Maybe across the bay in Delaware? Surely in Philadelphia, if you could get there a few times.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 20:38:15

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

Hi Richard. Generic medications are less efficacious than their branded equivalents, even when the active ingredients are identical or indeed the formulation of the entire pill is the same.

Have studies been undertaken to estimate the placebo effect with regard to the perceived status of the person undertaking the callibration of a cochlear implant ?

I sometimes worry that the placebo effect swings in both directions and that that would suit marketing types just dandy.

Can you imagined two men with false teeth arguing about who is the best at chewing toffee in a room full of kids ?

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 20:49:01

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

. I'm getting through Falla's "Homenaje", but not reliably up to speed yet.

RNJ

Good choice.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 20:51:19

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Can you imagined two men with false teeth arguing about who is the best at chewing toffee in a room full of kids ?

D.

Not really. But I can readily picture one of them recommending a visit to a good dentist.

Just to be sure I have been clear, I have been posting about conventional hearing aids, not cochlear implants.

As to life plans for old men, when I was in the Army my platoon sergeant said he planned to live to be 85, then to be killed by a jealous husband.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 20:59:12

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

Maybe across the bay in Delaware? Surely in Philadelphia, if you could get there a few times.

True but then there is the problem of cataracts, meaning I can only drive where i have been to, and i am damned if i am going to let some guy hack on my eye balls with an Exacto knife. So i am perfectly willing to live with my limitations as they are. Does it matter as far as playing the guitar? Not in the least I enjoy hacking away as i hope the exercise will help to stave off dementia all though checking the bio of Nickolas Maw whose guitar piece dedicated to Fisk i recently posted died at 73 suffering from to dementia . He composed the worlds longest symphony at 96 minutes!.Well maybe melatonin and red wine will help.
God this must be depressing to those here who have not reached the octogenarian stage. But don't laugh, your time will come. If you don't smoke.
When I was about 9. at the Whitney museum in San Antonio, I heard this old Mexican playing a harp and it hooked me on the plucked string. I have been at it almost ever since but as the bible says: many are called but few are chosen.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 21:40:34

BarkellWH

Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: PDL says you dont need to study ! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

As to life plans for old men, when I was in the Army my platoon sergeant said he planned to live to be 85, then to be killed by a jealous husband.

Having just this year entered my septuagenarian decade, I am not yet ready to think of an epitaph. But should fate decree one necessary, I can think of nothing better than the lines Lady Caroline Lamb wrote in her diary about her lover, Lord Byron, upon his death.

"He was mad, bad, and dangerous to know."

Would that there were some fair ladies who would write that about me in their diaries.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 22:16:37