POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO COMPAS

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO COMPAS

Hola everyone. I'm still trying to get the hang of compas. I remember a while back another member told me that the "Happy Birthday To you" song follows Flamenco compas (I mean the song you sing at people's birthday parties, not the one by a famous singer!

).
I would be interested to know if anyone can point out some other examples of non-Flamenco songs (rock, pop, or any other other type of music) that use Flamenco compas. I think hearing the rhythm patterns in familiar contexts might help me get to grips with compas.

Gracias!

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 12:57:29

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

James,
Hmmm.. I'm trying to figure out what compás "Happy Bithday" is supposed to imitate?

"I Wanna Hold Your Hand" by the Beatles always sounds like Tangos to me!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 13:16:28

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Whoever said that must have meant that you could fit the words of Happy Birthday into a bulerias compas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 14:08:38

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

"I want to be in america" from the westside - story movie.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 15:45:02

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to koella)

quote:

"I want to be in america" from the westside - story movie.

Equals which palo or compás?

It's no good just stating the name of a popular song that sounds Spanishy..LOL!
You've got to state the equivalent Flamenco rhythm!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 16:02:01

Tenshu

Posts: 150
Joined: Oct. 18 2003
From: Belgium

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Equals which palo or compás?

Buleria!

*I* want to *be* in A *me*- *ri* - *ca*

_____________________________

-T

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 16:10:17

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

I would be interested to know if anyone can point out some other examples of non-Flamenco songs (rock, pop, or any other other type of music) that use Flamenco compas. I think hearing the rhythm patterns in familiar contexts might help me get to grips with compas.

I've heard the flamenco "Happy Birthday' version many many times and I love it.

Remedios Amaya once said to me that you can sing anything in compás, then challenged me to sing a Tom Jones song which I did and managed a rendition of "Its not unusual", while she provided the compás, but the fact was that it was very unusual indeed

Kate

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 16:34:45

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

It was Ricardo that mentioned the "Happy Birthday" compas example in my "The importance of being in Compas" thread. He said:

"Once you can play bulerias as easily as you sing "happy birthday", you will understand.

(Boom) nada ma QUIE-re di-NER-o gi-TAN-a
(Boom) ...happy BIRTH-day to YOU, "

Maybe I misunderstood what he was trying to say, I'm not sure.

I think it is possible to play ANY song in compas if you mess around with the beats slightly. But as Kate said, that can sound quite strange, so I am mainly concerned with examples that keep the same phrasing as in the original pop/rock context, but also happen to translate well into Flamenco compas.

Thanks again,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 17:15:12

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

"I want to be in america" from the westside - story movie.

Equals which palo or compás?

It's no good just stating the name of a popular song that sounds Spanishy..LOL!
You've got to state the equivalent Flamenco rhythm!

cheers

Ron

Didn't mean to Ron. The song I mentioned is one of the few popular (non flamenco)songs that have two 3/4 followed by three 2/4. So it matches with buleria when you start it on 12.
It also matches guajira.

Am I doing better now Ron ?

Funny you say it sounds Spanish. Now I come to think of it, I guess you're right.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 19:19:25

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Tenshu)

quote:

Buleria!

*I* want to *be* in A *me*- *ri* - *ca*

_____________________________

I would say Guajiras since theres no typical 7 8 accent
But a more Guajiras feel

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 19:54:16

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Tenshu)

quote:

Buleria!

*I* want to *be* in A *me*- *ri* - *ca*

I see mathematically what you're getting at..
But to play Bulerias compás while someone sings that phrase?...

Na!...It just doesn't work... (not in my head anyway!)..

Actually it's fun keeping Bulerias or Tangos rhythm to anything you hear on the Radio etc.
In a lot of cases it works..goes out of phase..and comes back in again.
(Good excercise in timekeeping actually.)

Which is the point that I think Todd was making about rhythm just being rhythm.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:15:56

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

I think hearing the rhythm patterns in familiar contexts might help me get to grips with compas.

This was the issue Ron

P.s. Noone forces you to sing happy birthday por buleria either

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:25:14

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to koella)

Koella,
So listening to "I want to live in America" will help beginners learn Bulerias?

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:28:02

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

No.
But it could be an eye-opener for people who have just met buleria and it's non- western ritme sequens of 3/4 versus 2/4.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:36:04

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

So listening to "I want to live in America" will help beginners learn Bulerias?

Can't see it myself, it fits neatly into regular 4/4 phrases - maybe we are confusing it with the syncopation of the lyrics which fall all wrong for Bulerias, to my ear anyhow.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:41:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

(Boom) nada ma QUIE-re di-NER-o gi-TAN-a
(Boom) ...happy BIRTH-day to YOU, "

"No more will you want money Gypsy girl" (Boom)
.....Happy Birthday to you...."

Is this from "The Godfather" ? LOL!

Jeez...sounds more like "El Amor Bruja"....(15 Rated at least!!)

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:45:50

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Escribano)

The syncopation of the lyrics is all I'm talking about. And they fit imo perfectly in buleriacompas.

Ps Todd lets us hear that buleria fits neatly in regular 2/4 phrases (or am I wrong?)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:46:58

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to koella)

quote:

Ps Todd lets us hear that buleria fits neatly in regular 2/4 phrases (or am I wrong?)

Maybe, but I can't hear it. In Bernstein's "America" (including in the version by "The Nice") the lyrics cover 4 beats and reload. Bulerias does not to me, it just keeps going

I am probably wrong, 'cos I can't play Bulerias like the Jerezanos

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 20:54:17

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

JAMES, I think you confuse the point with Happy Birthday, but I can't remember now. Looks like I was talking about feeling 3/4 and feeling pick up notes or something, after the beat, but not saying Happy Birthday is bulerias. Maybe I was getting at how we don't have to count Happy Birthday to feel the compas, do we shouldn't have to count bulerias? I am not sure.

Anyway, I can't think of any rock music really like flamenco compas because you don't find lots of remate type things that flamenco has, even in 2/4 rhythms (closing before the down beat).

The closest think I can think of was a guitarist named Nuno Bettencourt from Extreme. He had great rhythm skills and one tune called "Midnight Express" has the same type of synchopations and accents you find in flamenco 3/4-6/8 kind of grooves. Not necessarily alternating or having closings, etc, just his phrasing and contra tiempo ideas are the same. As far as rock goes, it is pretty advanced, and it is for acoustic guitar. Last I read about him, he said in a magazine he was getting into Paco de Lucia. Not surprised. Check out the Guitar Wars DVD where he plays with Paul Gilbert.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 21:08:05

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Escribano)

I don't know which 4 beats you mean. I don't have a copy of the song here so I only have this melody in my head.

I want to BE in a- ME- RI- CA

1 2 3 4 5 6 7-8 9-10 11-12

And to be clear: I DON'T want to say this song is a buleria or related to it

Only (maybe!!!) a vehicle for starters like meself.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 21:10:42

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

When I was in high school, Extreme had just hit and I thought Nuno was awesome. A pretty boy Vicente Amigo looking guy who seemed to have great chops. Although I didn't really like his electric guitar sound. "More Than Words"... :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2005 22:25:52

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Try 'That Thing You Do' by 'The Wonders'. That song happens to sound like a tangos to me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2005 3:02:42

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2005 4:48:10

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Kate)

IMO you can "shoehorn" practically anything into some sort of compás...

Try singing "Heartbreak Hotel" (Elvis) to a gloomy Siguiriyas....."Riders on the Storm" (Doors) to a nice Tangos...and "My Way" (Sinatra) sounds fresh and new when done to a lilting Alegrias. LOL!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2005 8:53:25

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: POP/ROCK SONGS THAT USE FLAMENCO... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

"More Than Words"... :)

Ah, this is a classic. I'm familiar with Nuno's work and the intro to "More Than Words" was one of the first things I learnt to play on an acoustic. I like the golpes he uses. After a few drinks I even have a go at the lyrics!

Thanks Ricardo, I will have a listen to that song. And I've had my eye on the "Guitar Wars" DVD for some time now....

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2005 14:37:04