Cante question (Estela? Sean?)

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Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

Cante question (Estela? Sean?)

What is the proper term for a verse in flamenco. "Copla" seems to be a good word, but I hesitate to use it since there's a form of Spanish song called "copla". "Verso" seems more appropriate for poetry. Is the proper term "tercio"? I know "tercio" means a third, but what exactly is it's meaning in the context of Flamenco song?

Thanks,
Phil

P.S. You're probably wondering why I would ask such a question since I live in Spain. Well, it's really quite simple: I would rather look stupid on the internet than in person. Additionally, maybe some other people could also benefit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2003 0:04:19

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Phil)

Phil;

The term I use as well as everyone I know in flamenco is Colpa. However, I am from the old school and do not know this weeks terms!

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2003 3:01:49

zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

quote:

The term I use as well as everyone I know in flamenco is Colpa. However, I am from the old school and do not know this weeks terms!

True enough Tom, "copla" has fallen out of fashion and now means those syrupy songs these women sing...Isabel Pantoja, Rocio Jurado and so many others. Assuming Phil is asking about the *sung* verse, the word in my neighborhood is 'letra', and I've never heard anyone use 'verso' except scholars (and we wouldn't want to be mistaken for *that*!

). 'Tercio' is a poetic line of cante but it can also be used in a general, or collective sense, "los tercios de Chacon", 'Chacon's cante'. Then there are those tiny bottles of beer they call 'tercios'

.

Can someone tell me if it's okay to use accents here? TEST: María or Maria, España or Espan~a

Estela 'Zata'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 2:22:37

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to zata)

quote:

Then there are those tiny bottles of beer they call 'tercios' .

Tiny? What's the point of that?

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 9:10:14

zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Tiny? What's the point of that?

Very cute

But I actually got it backwards...'tercios' are the bigger bottleS, a third of a liter, and 'quintos' and the tiny ones, a fifth of a liter. The small ones are great when everyone's taking turns paying the rounds, a favorite pasttime in Spain.

Estela 'Zata'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 11:06:44

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to zata)

Estela,

I'll make a stab at the Tomatito review this afternoon but can't promise to finish it for today. Are you OK for a publication next week. I am up to my ears in "paid" work.

Then you can buy me unos tercios next March in Jerez, yes?

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 11:13:01

zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Then you can buy me unos tercios next March in Jerez, yes?

Sure, Monday is fine if you can't make it for tomorrow, and the tercios are guaranteed, with tapas included.

Estela 'Zata'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 11:29:34

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Phil)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 14:00:44

zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Phil the way I learned it, only sevillanas and fandangos have coplas.

Andy, Phil, if we're talking about current usage in Spain, 'letra' continues to refer to the 'complete unto themselves' verses of 3, 4 or more lines. You only hear copla as applied to the name of the genre of Isabel Pantoja and others...a type of music and delivery some people label "folkorico", "cancion espan~ola" or "tonadillas".

Estela 'Zata'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 14:42:33

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Phil)

Estela said,

quote:

True enough Tom, "copla" has fallen out of fashion and now means those syrupy songs these women sing...Isabel Pantoja, Rocio Jurado and so many others.

That's what I meant when I said,

quote:

"Copla" seems to be a good word, but I hesitate to use it since there's a form of Spanish song called "copla".

I keep hearing the word 'tercio' and wasn't sure what it meant exactly. So, let me see if I got this straight: 'letra' is the equivalent of the English word 'verse', and 'tercio' means a single line of a verse. (When not talking about beer).
Thanks,
Phil

P.S. We're sure keeping you busy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 16:18:22

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Phil)

Now I am enjoying this, though I can't speak for Estela

. We are talking about flamenco and not the same old "which guitar is best?" stuff (of which I am guilty), fascinating, thanks!

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 16:21:59

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Phil)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 16:27:25

zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003

RE: Cante question (Estela? Sean?) (in reply to Phil)

quote:

So, let me see if I got this straight: 'letra' is the equivalent of the English word 'verse', and 'tercio' means a single line of a verse. (When not talking about beer).

Sounds good to me Phil, just remember that tercio can sometimes have a broader meaning, but the context is always clear.

I once saw a translation to English that included 'tercio' in the following way:

The Crustacean of the Isle sings many original thirds.

(The original sentecne was "Camaron de la Isla canta muchos tercios originales."

)

As far being kept busy, it's very helpful and interesting for me to be forced to put into words things I've only known by intuition or feeling...keeps the middle-aged mind agile

.

Estela 'Zata'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2003 16:38:32