Rhythmic Syncopation Thread

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Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

Rhythmic Syncopation Thread

Hello all! I always thought it would be a nice idea to have a thread that deals with rhythmical syncopation and interesting ways of manipulating compas.

How about we post bulerias remates at slow tempo to steal ideas from each other? Or any bulerias compas ideas. I will participate as soon as I get a hold of my other camera.

P.S. Too bad Jason isn't a member anymore. He's scary good at this.

P.P.S. Doesn't have to be bulerias...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 16:38:27

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

This is something I desperately need to work on. I will try and contribute something maybe next thurdsay (I have other things to prepare).

My humble efforts might not make sense to anyone but me and indeed may objectively be rubbish.

But I sure do want to encourage you to show us a little of what you have up your sleeve. Ditto on the Jason thing. But there are lots of other good guys around I could learn from.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 17:40:24

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

I don't have much up my sleeve, but it's on my short term to do list. I can learn any remate or idea from Tomatito or Morao and post it here. I urge all of you to post something, even if it appears common to you. The idea is to post many possible solutions that foro members can practice to improve their compas feel and expand their rhythmic vocabulary. In time we can compile a nice encyclopedia of different remates and rhythmic ideas, much like the falseta thread. I myself would love to learn from members here.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 18:04:03

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

You're all sleeves Grish

Nice idea, I was actually thinking of a kinda geometrical system for memorising a school of possibilities. Like Tomatition often has lines over the compas with ten notes and two holes, kinda fascinated me a few years ago. Not that I ever got any good at playing them but my ears sure improved.

Your ways sounds more like fun, for sane people.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 18:12:31

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Sounds like an interesting thing to do. Definitely an area that I could work on some more.
This guy does some nice stuff.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 21:11:35

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Great! Simpler less dense stuff is welcomed also.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2013 18:02:33

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to jg7238)

Here are a few remates por bulerias. I just put strings on this guitar so it's a bit out of tune..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2013 21:36:55

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Thanks Juan! Nice swing you got there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2013 21:57:29

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

No problem Grisha. Thanks for the comment. By watching Tomatito you really learn so many little things. I find Diego del Morao a bit too complicated to follow at times.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2013 22:16:55

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Sorry to ask such a question, but in the first video posted what guitar is being played? The Jose Vega one. On this YT page he plays a beautiful peghead negra, I'd be intrigued to what that is too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2013 22:17:36

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to tijeretamiel)

Negra looks like a Jeff Sigurdson.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2013 23:10:09

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

I didn't have a capo on this crap guitar so it sounds a bit mushy but I was pretty keen to get something up before someone like Ricardo uploads some real crazy stuff.

This sort of stuff is so common nowadays I don't think we can even call it syncopation. Paco, Tomatito, Diego... that's a the real deal. I also remember Canito (where is he now?) and from the little I heard, he was awesome at producing tasty syncopated passages.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 26 2013 10:45:14

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

we need more threads like this. Bump

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2013 2:37:29

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

I agree, others have tried to start a thread like this with little success unfortunately.

I wish I could contribute more immediately, here's a cool thread for the mean time:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=206068&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=remate&tmode=&smode=&s=#206098

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2013 5:07:09

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Yeah great thread idea Grisha.

Por medio and jg I need a like button.... nice stuff, thanks.

Is it worth setting up as a new thread in the Audio and Video uploads bit ?

It inspired me to upload a video from a workshop I organised with John Walsh.

He got us all doing compas variations on a single chord and really nicely demonstrated hitting 11 and 10.5. I just got permission from John and we were laughing about the last bit where I don't think he does do 11.5. Anyway it was a great workshop. I hope you find it inspiring.

Looking forward to more examples.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2013 13:18:42

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Thank you all for your responses!

I should have given it more thought before starting this thread. Perhaps it's best to move it to audio/video uploads section. With more participation we can make something out of it that will benefit a lot of players around here.

I myself have access to my camera now, but no time due to upcoming duet/ensemble performances. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I may get a window and post. I really want to participate in this.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2013 15:23:21

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to jg7238)

Nice video by John... Here are a few more remates por bulerias.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2013 18:17:49

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to jg7238)

I find it a bit difficult to distinguish the syncopated parts from the non syncopated parts, the difference is not very clear to me. Could someone post a video or show an example of a single compás of bulerías or remate with and without syncopation, please?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2013 23:46:19

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

I find it a bit difficult to distinguish the syncopated parts from the non syncopated parts, the difference is not very clear to me. Could someone post a video or show an example of a single compás of bulerías or remate with and without syncopation, please?

Basically the rhythmical pattern of buleria itself is syncopated. So there is no non syncopated part about it in the first place. So at the end you are syncopating on a syncopated pattern.

A syncope is an accent that comes in an unsuspected moment in the rhythmical structure of what you are playing. It's not just giving an accent somewhere that is surprising. I think syncopation requires a lot of good taste and a good feeling for timing. Eventually you also have to get back on track.
If you really can feel the rhythm you can improvise syncopations. Good composed syncopations that are played very well in time along with interesting modulations are very apealing, interesting, surprising and virtuoso.

Syncopated falsetas are very important and required for dance accompaniment for example. Dansers want something rhythmically advanced to "montar" their falsetas on. That's why falsetas para baila are quite specific and require much more rhythically. On the other hand you should watch out with them during cante accompaniment because they can be too distracting and hyperactive and kill the aire.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2013 14:41:06

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

A syncope is an accent that comes in an unsuspected moment in the rhythmical structure of what you are playing. It's not just giving an accent somewhere that is surprising. I think syncopation requires a lot of good taste and a good feeling for timing.

Syncopation is an accent that's not on the downbeat, the rest is just like you said - a matter of taste.

Check out http://bit.ly/14cmEFh for more info.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2013 23:31:46

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Rmn)

quote:

Basically the rhythmical pattern of buleria itself is syncopated. So there is no non syncopated part about it in the first place. So at the end you are syncopating on a syncopated pattern.

That pretty much clarifies my question, I understand now. Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2013 1:04:28

davidheis_24

Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 4 2011

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 11 2013 1:29:47

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2013 9:30:48

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Thanks for all your contributions! If you could also include slow versions, that would be absolutely fantastic!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2013 17:09:25

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Eduardo Trassierra. (Normal tempo)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 16:41:04

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Ah I love that Eduardo Trassierra video.... Someone play it slowly please.

Ok so I thought I would try to do an upload from my phone of a little thing that seems to be used a lot in Alegrias. I think I have got it right but feel free to quiz me on this.

What confused me is how the upstroke becomes the down beat. It is used between beats 9 and 12 and I recorded it at 72bpm

Any more slow videos ?

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 3 2013 21:05:39

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to johnnefastis)

Now this is so odd that the value is more like satirical...still it should fit the rhythm.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2013 18:19:56

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

That's great ! I would love to see the other hand and hear it played slower.

It always seems like you really drive your buleria with that foot on the two's feeling.
I really like it.
Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2013 22:16:03

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to johnnefastis)

Regarding Alegrias compas earlier: I think you've got the basics down pretty well - I'm sure you can go just a little faster.

Just a technical thing, try to keep the thumb rested on the 6th string a little more.

Good stuff!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2013 23:50:07

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Thanks Por Medio.

I can play it about twice the speed but thought it might be more useful slow.
Thanks for the thumb tip. I need to watch that. I think it's because the upstroke becomes the downbeat it make you want to come up more. Tomatito lifts his hand a bit but you are right the thumb should definitely stay down.

Will try and record and post something a bit faster.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2013 8:57:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rhythmic Syncopation Thread (in reply to Grisha)

Here are the 4 remates from the buleria I recorded at Todd's...but I transposed them to A (from C#) so maybe they will be more useful to everybody. That contraption (on left) is swinging the new baby.

Oh forgot, they come from this video, at 1:15, 2:29, 3:50, and 5:44.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=237551&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2013 16:15:57