Accidentally discovered nail trick

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a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

Accidentally discovered nail trick

It has been a while since I have been on the Foro, but in my absence I made a useful "discovery" about nail products.

We all know superglue is strong and hard, but takes off a layer of nail when it comes off. And Sally Hansen has always been disappointing.
I experimented with something a friend recommended: a Sally Hansen-like brush-on polish called Rock Hard ("5x harder . . . etc"). It was only slightly better than Sally Hansen, but I kept using it, and as I gradually emptied the bottle it got thicker and dried poorly, so I thinned it with acetone, which improved the drying and hardness. It wasn't any more durable, but it bonded well to the nail without weakening nail the way superglue does.

Then I tried something else:

After putting on a well dried (overnight) coat (or 2) of diluted Rock Hard (just on the edge of the nail) I put a top layer of cyanoacrylate nail glue (super glue) on top of the Rock Hard. The hardness of the superglue protects the underlying Rock Hard, and the diluted Rock Hard bonds well to the nail without damaging it. The combination doesn't come off as easily as regular polish or superglue. Instead it just simply wears down gradually (rather than chipping or peeling), so I have to check it and add more Rock Hard and superglue when it starts to wear through -- but it protects and strengthens AND is durable AND doesn't weaken the nail. And it doesn't look as grotesque as glue-on nails.

By the way, as brush-on superglue ages, it dries more and more slowly and less and less hard as the solvent evaporates. Mix in some "fast" superglue (available in hobby stores, not nail stores) to thin it and rejuvenate it.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2013 16:17:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

Glad you found something that works for you.

For the record brush on nail glue is NOT SUPERGLUE...it IS KRAZY GLUE, same stuff. It does NOT WEAKEN your nails, so long as you DON'T try to remove it early. It is true over time it starts not working as well but you can keep it fresh in a zip lock plastic bag, treat it like food and it will take care of you.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2013 18:11:08

theblackcat

Posts: 57
Joined: Feb. 2 2010
From: Istanbul

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

Too much fuss imho, but whatever works for you of course...

One thing that has helped me was applying 2 coats on top of the nail & 1 under the protruding part & waiting at least half a day before playing - I do this before I go to sleep, it will have dried enough by the next time I play. If I wait for only an hour or so, the polish will come off no matter what.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2013 10:29:52

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to theblackcat)

quote:

waiting at least half a day before playing - I do this before I go to sleep,

Yeah -- that is what I do too, but it also helps speed thorough drying to dilute the polish with a lot of acetone.

The superglue (or brush-on nail glue or crazy glue -- all are cyanoacrylate, unless there is a brand I don't know about) is harder than any polish, though, and makes a good protective cover. Plus it dries super fast.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 22:01:06

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

I think the nail damage from the glue that a_arnold is talking about is the thin layer of nail surface the glue takes with it every time it separates from the nail. At least, that is my main problem.

My routine: very lightly scuff up the nail surface with a semi-fine file, wipe the surface with alcohol for best adhesion, apply super thin cyano in a thin layer (if I can see the liquid bead up on my nail then I put it on too thick). If I put another layer, then I scuff that layer up like before (although I've read that the super thin cyano does not require a roughed up surface), wipe with alcohol, so on. But I usually don't bother with more than one layer.

My main problem is when the glue separates from the nail without necessarily chipping off. This happens when the nail inevitably flexes more than the glue likes, and it breaks the bond in that area. The area resembles like a halo, it's whiter than the surrounding area. And scuffing up the area and applying more glue on it doesn't repair the lifting, of course. The only way I've found to repair it is to put a few drops of acetone on a piece of paper towel and use some pressure and light rubbing to "melt" the glue and allow it stick again. It works, sorta, but not even close to good enough.

I don't think the cyano will ever work the way we want it to (and I've tried lots of brands and viscosities). I found a rubberized CA which might be promising since it allows some flex before failing. But then again maybe not, and plus it's a black color lol. I'm going to try your method, a_arnold. Thanks for sharing. I can imagine your method working if the rock hard stuff allows some flexibility, while the CA provides the strength. I'm curious enough to try. Do you think you can provide a link to the rock hard stuff you use?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2013 7:32:20

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

quote:

I think the nail damage from the glue that a_arnold is talking about is the thin layer of nail surface the glue takes with it every time it separates from the nail. At least, that is my main problem.

No man. The more damage was caused by your "pre scuffing" the top of the nail and putting alcohol on. Don't do that. As you said the separation happens and it is natural as the skin cells die, not from bending. (My nails bend BECAUSE of cyano). That means the "the thin layer of nails surface..." you are so concerned about WOULD HAVE COME OFF ANYWAY!!!!

THe white part will flake off by gentle scratching or normal playing. THEN JUST PUT MORE ON...in the holes. THat is all you have to do. THere is no problem unless you run out of the stuff when you need it.

RIcardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2013 13:02:54

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

quote:

Do you think you can provide a link to the rock hard stuff you use?

I got Rock Hard off the shelf at a beauty supply place -- Sally's Beauty Supply (not Sally Hansen). I think it is a chain. It comes as a bottle packaged in a turquoise and orange box and is item # 600-540 made by American International Industries, Los Angeles, CA 90040.

As for repairing cyanoacrylate (CA) when it begins separating, it is easier to add new CA if you use the "fast" CA that they sell in hobby shops (it's not available as a nail product). Fast CA is VERY runny and sets more quickly, but it will flow into and fill the separation much better than the brush-on stuff.

I don't pre-scuff, but I do really clean my nails well with soap and water and dry them well before putting anything on. Ricardo is probably right that the alcohol dries the nail. I do, however, think that the CA takes a layer of nail off when it comes off. I can actually see a "step" in the surface of the nail if I have had to do a silk repair with CA directly on the nail and the repair comes off. That step doesn't happen with Rock Hard underneath protecting the nail.

However -- here is a trick a friend of mine uses (for what it's worth; I haven't tried it) if you have a tear starting, put a dab of CA on the tear, then (before it dries) touch it to some baking powder. Let dry. Smooth, but leave a mound of cemented baking powder in place over the tear. Then another touch of CA on top. My friend is a classical guitarist -- finalist in both GFA and Parkening competitions. He knows what he is doing. I'm not convinced that this kind of repair will be strong enough for flamenco, but it's worth knowing about.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2013 22:51:36

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

Thanks for the tips a_arnold, Ricardo.

I'll be making use of them.

For kicks I wanted to show you my little set-up for nail gloo-ing.

The brush bottle has some acetone in it so that the brush stays fresh and ready to use. I trimmed the bristles way down so i get more control (less floppy). The acetone dries off the brush in like 2 or 3 seconds after brushing on some paper; it's like new. I put one or 2 drops of glue on the brush, wipe the excess on paper. It works great. This glue is like water so it helps tremendously to do it this way.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 5:53:45

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

That glue is great, that's the one I use. Far better than any super glue you can buy at the supermarket or chinese store.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 14:53:56

arielestulin

Posts: 15
Joined: Oct. 21 2009

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

Here's how James Taylor does it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2013 2:41:02

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

The hardness of the superglue protects the underlying Rock Hard, and the diluted Rock Hard bonds well to the nail without damaging it.

You've found a way to case harden your fingernails.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2013 13:29:00

mjhoerr

Posts: 25
Joined: Jan. 12 2013

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

quote:

The brush bottle has some acetone in it so that the brush stays fresh and ready to use. I trimmed the bristles way down so i get more control (less floppy). The acetone dries off the brush in like 2 or 3 seconds after brushing on some paper; it's like new. I put one or 2 drops of glue on the brush, wipe the excess on paper. It works great. This glue is like water so it helps tremendously to do it this way.

JuanDaBomb you are DaMan!

I had recently discovered this superglue and have been fretting about not being able to use it with a brush. I have even gone around inquiring about empty glass jars with brush in cap to put it in -- often met with incredulous looks.

Thanks! you have solved my conundrum.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2013 16:23:12

junheng

Posts: 47
Joined: May 9 2013

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

I'm not doing any of these complex things.

I am simply using clear nail varnish - Two layers, applied just after practicing so it gets a minimum of 24 hours to dry. (I've proven to my own satisfaction that it doesn't truely hardens until about this length of time, despite what the bottle says.) After a couple of weeks it gets too thin, so I remove it and repaint.

I started by painting under the protruding part of the nail too, but found that, for me and my lifestyle (office worker), this was OTT, so now I just paint the tops. No accidents yet.

But I'm only starting out. Am I heading for a nail catastrophe?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 4:04:54

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to junheng)

OPI. All the why.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 10:05:44

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

OPI. All the why.

+1 I've been having some good luck with OPI Nail Envy (matte) combined with OPI Drip Dry. I've been meaning to post here about the Drip Dry - it's a very thin liquid that comes with a dropper, and you use 1-2 drops per nail about 1min after applying nail envy. It dramatically shortens the drying time. I usually still wait overnight, but you could easily use this combo on short notice. I find the combo wears roughly like super glue, and it removes easily with nail polish remover.

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Ryan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 10:42:25

britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

quote:

For kicks I wanted to show you my little set-up for nail gloo-ing.

You guys are so lucky, being able to use these glues to solve you nail problems. I've been struggling with nail problems for more than fifty years, and still haven't found the ideal solution.

I'd love to be able to just paint on Zrazy Glue or some similar stuff, but when I do my nails develop a nasty downward hook at the tip, making playing almost impossible. I've tried OPI etc, etc. but any nail hardener or glue seems to cause the hooking?

For me the only thing that has worked at all well on a consistent basis is those plastic glue-on half-nails. I hate putting them on (very fiddly), and they look like s#&*t, but they do last almost a month in some cases, and are easy to maintain.

I keep hoping to discover some 'magic' nail formula that will give strong, flexible nails for flamenco playing, yet be easy to use and durable. . .

Live in hopes . . . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 14:44:47

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to a_arnold)

Arthur, how long do you keep your nails? I try to keep mine only about 1mm or so past the end of the flesh, and I've found that if they grow much longer they sometimes can start to hook downwards.

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Ryan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 15:55:03

britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to ralexander)

quote:

Arthur, how long do you keep your nails?

Ryan: I always keep my nails pretty short, barely protruding over my fleshy fingertips. See photos. . .

If they get too long I cant play with them at all.

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 16:34:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to britguy)

You simply don't know how to file them properly. It will eliminate your hook problem instantly. Watch pumping nylon.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2013 17:10:43

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

You simply don't know how to file them properly. It will eliminate your hook problem instantly. Watch pumping nylon.

Agreed, I noticed an immediate difference when I started filing as described in Pumping Nylon. Ricardo posted a pic a while back of his nails at an angle similar to your third pic, and you could definitely notice more of a straight line. This was a game changer for me!

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Ryan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2013 11:45:39

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Accidentally discovered nail trick (in reply to ralexander)

Yes, calle y uña isn't it? Each teacher I have had in flamenco has emphasised the need only for a small lift of the nail from the flesh. Far less than that required for classical guitar tone. The thumbnail needs length but is sawn off at an angle for pulgar etc. Callousses are needed though. I may try some cyano on top of the OPI sometime, sounds sensible. I also use Elizabeth Arden Nail Expert, for nutrients - I sort of think it works too. OPI was the great discovery though as I too, have been through the lot.
EDIT: I ought to say that I'm not talking about punishing performance schedules just home practise. Works for me though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2013 23:36:52