french polish - slight return

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El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

french polish - slight return

Hi

I have cut some yellow shellac with alcohol and let it 'dissolve' over a few days. However I wanted to use some clear polish as a base coat and maybe even for the whole of the soundboard so bought some ready made stuff. Comparing the two made me wonder if I ought to only use the clear liquid at the top of the cut shellac as the blonde prepared stuff was clear, though obviously carrying the stain.
My question is then: is the cloudy material in my cut shellac good for french polishing as it adds to the body and should therefore be incorporated into the stuff used in the bodying sessions, or is it the wax and general detritus that the LMI guide wants removed by decanting the clear liquid?
I'm not sure if I have understood it adequately.

Cheers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 23 2013 12:38:22

Jim Kirby

Posts: 149
Joined: Jul. 14 2011
From: Newark, DE, USA

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

You should decant or preferably filter the prepared shellac to remove the undisolved wax and junk. Aside from the color, the solution you are using for polishing should basically be transparent and free of cloudiness.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 23 2013 15:32:14

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to Jim Kirby)

Ah. Thanks. I can decant some using a pipette I guess, but how would you strain it? The residue stays in suspension for a fair time. Through paper? If it takes time to go through, presumably it'll harden at the same time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 23 2013 16:45:49

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

That does not look like Blonde shellac. Try ordering from The Shellac Shack and get Super Blonde dewaxed as a clear shellac. The guy who runs SS personally knows more about shellac than other vendors.

The cut you made looks too thick. Thin it out and then use a cone coffee filter. Pour soe though and thn stir it every few minutes.

HAve to go now, but I can hep you more is you wnat, but get a Blonde or Super Blonde for clear base.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2013 1:57:43

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

I'd be worried if that came out of my cars oil pan, let alone going on a guitar.
Even the darkest garnet shellac should look like tinted water, not chewy like that.
A good supplier makes all the difference; a lot of furniture and wood depots only sell old, waxy, poorly dissolving shellac.
Coloured shellac on raw wood, especially spruce will come out blotchy looking.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2013 2:39:26

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to Sean)

Hmm. I bought the pale, not Blonde sorry, shellac, described as 'colourless and transparent' to avoid the blotching and unfortunately it's on the guitar. I'll do more damage and waste more money taking it off. But it's only marginally tinted and it's continuous, at least to me.

I did worry that the so-called 'lemon' was indeed too dark and thick, though I diluted it correctly. I've decanted the top liquid but straining the remainder through cotton wool, or cotton cloth doesn't seem to have removed anything. I'll look to the coffee strainer though I can't imagine it clarifying the liquid. The residue is very fine like the residue in olive oil that's cold.

This is the stuff I have used.

Anyway, I have learned that that stuff has to go, so thanks.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2013 11:00:22

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

The Lemon is bogus stuff. Some of "shellac" at LMI is not even real shellac or it is adulterated. My advice, switch to Shellac Shack as your vendor.

I'm fed up with LMI as it is, just for convenience sake I tried to order a few hundred dollars of supplies from them and they will not ship certain items out of the US. I wrote to them twice asking for help with the issue and they ignored my emails. I thought there was some Lacey Act ordinance they I needed to know about. Come to find out every other vendor will ship the same items I asked for so I spent my supply money at Allied. Where I should have ordered from to begin with.

Try Shellac Shack, I've been ordering from them for more than a few years now. You can write them and ask them questions and they will actually understand what you are trying to do and make recommendations. I recommend the Super Blond dewaxed if you need a clear . The Platina is almost water clear, but the Super Blond is fine for base. Regular Blonde is light light amber. I've also gotten some ruby red garnets for them and now they have a dewaxed garnet. You can not go wrong just doing the whole guitar with regular blonde or Super Blonde.
http://www.shellacshack.com/purchase-shellac-flakes.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 2:59:17

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

Buy your shellac and/or French polish from here

http://www.rydenor.co.uk/

Excellent products

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 6:45:59

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to krichards)

How is that different Kevin? It looks un-un-waxed to me. I did look at them last time you suggested it but their website was down for months and I wasn't going to buy anything I couldn't see.

quote:

Try Shellac Shack

Thanks Banana-san, I'll have a look. I'm coming to Tokyo/Nagoya in July. I'm expecting 'warm' and some 'humid'.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 7:10:53

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

Well, for what it's worth, in a fit of revisionism, I sanded off all the lemon FP and then used the Pale colour as a base. Three coats, brush applied.

It looks lovely, so I'm sticking with it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 22:37:20

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

Maybe I haven't understood you correctly.

But I've never seen anything like the stuff in that jar. What, exactly, did you put in there?
I just use shellac flakes and shellac thinners; there's hardly any residue, hardly any need to filter.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 14:54:33

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

The orange sludge in the jar looks like waxy unfiltered regular orange shellac.

Burdo,

If you have a few extra days drop down and visit me. We have an extra nice room with airconditoning. Japan rail pass it for three days...I'll show you what big city life is all about!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 1:20:52

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

But I've never seen anything like the stuff in that jar

I'm beginning to wonder if I've done this right! I used half the packet 125g and 500ml of Isopropanol - though Liberon recommend Methylated spirits. The dilution did seem too thick. I've since added more alcohol and am getting more usuable liquid but the same deposits. Are thinners not alcohol then? The Liberon liquid doesn't 'quite' smell like alcohol, true. I think I'll just continue with the pale stuff and stop at the end of it.

quote:

If you have a few extra days drop down and visit me

I'm only there for a few days though I do have the Japan Rail card, to get in and out of Tokyo. It would be nice to see some of the wilds instead of the concrete. I did go into the Yoshino mountains for the Sakura once (slightly too early!) but a bamboo grove would cool me out. Thanks very much for the offer.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 9:52:28

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

I used half the packet 125g and 500ml of Isopropanol

That's a large quantity to make for one guitar. You would need no more than a fifth of that.
500ml is half a litre; where's the rest of it?

Shellac thinners is ethanol i.e. methylated spirits without the colouring.

Not sure about isopropanol; never used it, unless its another name for ethanol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 15:42:06

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

Isopropanol is the stuff a nurse swabs your arm, or ass with before giving you a shot.
That stuff evaporates slower then ethanol, and I have never seen it higher then 85% so I don't use it; water I think makes up the other 15%.
In North America, woodessence.com is a good supplier; wax free and the flakes dissolve rapidly in ethanol.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 19:23:49

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to Sean)

Hi Kevin and Sean - the alcohol is recommended by SEden - it's 99% Isopropyl alcohol. It is slow to evaporate true. Actually, to the point of clogging up the muñeca if overdone.

quote:

where's the rest of it?

Hah! Actually, that was 400ml. I had no idea how much I would need so guessed.

Some time later.... just looked at the Woodessence site and it says "..Dissolve (Cut) with Isopropyl 99% or Denatured Ethanol."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 20:02:50

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: french polish - slight return (in reply to El Burdo)

Isopropranol works just great for me. It is also know as Isopropyl Alchol. The stuff I use is from a website called Shinyhardware.co.uk and it's 99.9%.

Something you may want to consider El Burdo is to find a french polisher and buy your polish ready mixed from them. I get mine from the local polisher so it's always fresh and perfectly mixed. If you can get your hands on some table top you will find it even easier as it's a fast drying polish so you can polish for longer and achieve a build up far easier.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 10:31:15