Musicians'ears

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Musicians' ears

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Brendan

Posts: 355
Joined: Oct. 30 2010

Musicians' ears

This silly article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/04/music-died-cds-listen-laptop

reminded me of a claim I've heard a few times and wonder about:

quote:

Musicians have surprisingly poor-quality stereos.

I have no idea whether this is true. I like it because it flatters my vanity (it tells me that I have a crap stereo because I'm a real muso, rather than because I'm lazy or stingy). It comes with a flattering explanation: musicians listen differently, we (we...) hear the music as music rather than as throbbing sensory input. Also plausible: musicians tend to be skint, and spend what money they make on their instruments.

I also wonder about the comparison: surprising to whom? Hi-fi buffs maybe, but everybody else has rubbish kit by their standards.

So this could be bull. But I do recall a clever advert for speakers from years ago, that said "on our speakers, you can hear the difference between Gibson and Fender". Clever, because it sounds impressive to the laity, when we know that you can hear that difference on the cheapest radio.

So here's the topic: do musicians listen to music in a way that leaves them relatively indifferent to sound quality?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 10:41:30

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Brendan)

As an amateur musician since the age of 9, and a hi-fi buff since adolescence, I tend to agree that musicians have crappy stereos.

I think there are a couple of reasons. One is that even the very best, and certainly the very most expensive stereos, don't sound like the real thing. This is obvious to musicians, so why shell out a lot of money?

The second reason is that few musicians are wealthy.

But even wealthy ones may not have very good systems. I don't know what kind of stereo Paul McCartney has, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were fairly rudimentary.

An example that I do know of is the very famous and well off conductor Arturo Toscanini. The RCA engineers who recorded Toscanini in the latter part of his career tore out their hair. He listened to playbacks of his recorded symphonic efforts on one of the "console" radio-phonographs of the 1940s-50s, and insisted on altering the tonal balance to suit. The results were dreadful.

Toscanini was noted for the acuity of his hearing, even in old age. He could pick out a single fiddler who was a little out of tune from a mass of twenty-odd, and berate him accordingly. It seems likely to me that Toscanini had no expectation at all that recordings should sound like the real thing.

My goals for a hi-fi system are more or less correct tonal balance among treble, midrange and bass, and the ability to hear clearly through low distortion and a good stereo image. I listen mostly to classical and guitar music.

When I put on some rock-n-roll, I want it to be loud, and to kick ass in the bass.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 21:28:29

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

But even wealthy ones may not have very good systems. I don't know what kind of stereo Paul McCartney has, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were fairly rudimentary.

The nature and placement of people‘s Hi-Fis could form a sociological study in themselves (behind the couch, left speaker placed on top of the right…).

Do you need a recommendation?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 22:26:37

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Brendan)

Maybe, but recording musicians usually have some serious hardware. Only in my limited experience of old Indy bands, of course.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 23:12:27

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Brendan)

quote:

on our speakers, you can hear the difference between Gibson and Fender

A humbucker v. single coil should (in theory) be easy to spot on the crappiest of speakers

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 23:15:06

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

A humbucker v. single coil should (in theory) be easy to spot on the crappiest of speakers

Advertising campaigns are not usually noted for their intelligence (remember the old Is it live or is it Memorex? ads?)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 23:34:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

Since I was a kid I took for granted that everybody knew what "stereo" meant or that at least they all noticed on headphones that Left isnt playing the same thing as Right.

You would be amazed...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2013 23:38:10

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Brendan)

@Rui:
I explained this in some way to a friend of mine as well, which really surprised me too

Ontopic:
I have a yamaha monitor set, which is really great for composing stuff on a computer. But in the end it has to sound good on all types of speakers. A thing i noticed, is that listening to a song in poor quality can be really interesting, since some songs keep being so much more intersting then others.

With some electronic music it's neccesary to have a really good sound be able to enjoy it though, imo. For example with this artist: Monolake.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2013 21:56:58

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Brendan)

I happen to be an audio-freak as well. Not the kind that spend 50.000,- euro on an amplifier with only an on/of button and 2 line ins (LP and CD) (and no sound regulation), but the kind that spend years on reading hifi-magazines and test rapports as a teenager before buying a superb set. Every item was selected on it's own merits without favoring a certain mark... i favored the one that offered the best possible sound. The stuff i bought in the midd 80ties is still top of the bill, the cassette deck even became a rare collectors item because it turned out to be one of the best decks ever build (offering a stunning 20-23.000 Hz). It has 3 heads and a computer system that evaluates the tape characteristics and then varies recording settings to create a totally flat 20>23.000 Hz. I had no speakers because a matching set would cost me over 5.000,- . My Beyer dynamic studio headphone (open system) however offered an outstanding 20-35.000 Hz and extremely natural sound on top of being extremely head friendly... even after 12 hours of wearing it you would hardly feel it. My radio was the first digital (i'm talking zero's and ones here) radio on the marked. I bought the last one available befor it was retreated from the marked despite being top of the bill (payed full price for the shops demo).

Did you know that by placing 2 speakers in the middle of a room (facing the wall for lot's of reflections) you can vary the location and the audibility of the various (background) instruments by changing the position of your head (positioning your ears just in front, exactly on one line or just behind the speakers and by such mixing direct and indirect sounds). Suddenly a certain instrument can change position and transpose from being hardly audible to being prominently precent and instruments suddenly become so separated in space that you could really point out were the artist is sitting in your room. I once had a cd player that was broke that also tended to play certain background instruments much harder then intended while mumming the main voice, revealing details you never heard before.

http://www.hifiengine.com/gallery/images/akai-gx-f91.shtml
http://www.hifiengine.com/library/sansui/au-d77x.shtml
http://www.overclock.net/products/beyerdynamic-dt-990-pro-open-studio-headphones-250-ohms

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2013 22:59:18

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

I think there are a couple of reasons. One is that even the very best, and certainly the very most expensive stereos, don't sound like the real thing. This is obvious to musicians, so why shell out a lot of money?

The second reason is that few musicians are wealthy.

Richard, you can add to this that some of the best performances and most influential recordings sound pretty bad no matter how expensive the stereo is. Since musicians know what is good they are more tolerant of poor recording quality when it comes to other performer's recordings. One thing I have never cared for is a totally tweaked out recording of inconsequential music.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2013 0:44:55

Brendan

Posts: 355
Joined: Oct. 30 2010

RE: Musicians' ears (in reply to Brendan)

Thanks chaps! Cracking story as usual, Richard. Nice to know that I'm not the only incompetent nuisance at a mixing desk.

If there's anything in this notion, I guess it must be along the lines you and Pgh suggest. What is music, paradigmatically? That noise I make for hours everyday. What I hear others playing in rehearsals and gigs. Then, derivatively, recordings thereof.

Then again, Erik has helpfully bolstered the sloth-theory (in my own case) by reminding me of the research effort required to buy quality kit. Respect!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2013 10:10:00