Blending Strings

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Blending Strings

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gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

Blending Strings

I just noticed an interesting blend of strings in this Javier Conde's video [by the way, a lovely Granaina]. Black trebles for B and G, while the the 1st E is clear Nylon.

I find it interesting because the one aspect of Black trebles i never warmed up to is that the 1st string loses some of its natural sweet tones.While the other two [B and G] could often use a a more ringing quality.

Perhaps, it is something to try in that endless search for the perfect String Set.

[See particularly at 2:27]

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 17:45:26

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

I dont mind different kinds of treble strings at the same time, it can be cool to achieve diffferent textures.

I would like to know about sets that have trebles that more evenly tensioned. Most of the times I cant have 3 trebles from the same set because it will feel weird, G will be a bit tuby and thick, B is too soft... oh well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 17:55:25

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

In classical use it seems to be a practice to sub a carbon 3rd for the nylon as , as you say the nylon has a tubby or dull sound by comparison to the 1st and 2nd. Savarez offers a wound 3rd which I never liked while D'Addario sends out its sets with both nylon and composite 3rd. I think I'll try a 2nd and 3rd Hannbach flamenco (reddish) next string change.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 18:23:02

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

In classical use it seems to be a practice to sub a carbon 3rd for the nylon as , as you say the nylon has a tubby or dull sound by comparison to the 1st and 2nd.

As a matter of fact they also play the 3th string slightly different then the other trebles to balance the sound/mass difference..... that's how detailed they study/value sound :-).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 20:39:36

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

In classical use it seems to be a practice to sub a carbon 3rd for the nylon as ... while D'Addario sends out its sets with both nylon and composite 3rd

'Been there, done that!
Thank you, however, for pointing out the available alternatives.

I prefer Black trebles to either carbon or composite. Ultimately, as i recurrently post, i settled and am pleased with Luthier 20 -but I always keep an open mind.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 20:45:58

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

As a matter of fact they also play the 3th string slightly different then the other trebles to balance the sound/mass difference..... that's how detailed they study/value sound :-).

Right...after I posted I realized the Hannabach red wouldn't do as one wants a cello like sound from the G string. But I got suckered into buying a '72 Ramerz flamenco on ebay by an ingratiating sound clip only to discover is was dead as a door nail. But the Hannabach flamenco I put on it were good none the less. I'm going to try and shift it this summer on ebay.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 21:13:16

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

'Been there, done that!
Thank you, however, for pointing out the available alternatives.

I prefer Black trebles to either carbon or composite. Ultimately, as i recurrently post, i settled and am pleased with Luthier 20 -but I always keep an open mind.

I would like to know what is the difference in composition of colored trebles and regular nylon. Like the titanium trebles. Yes they have the same color as the metal I suppose not ever having seen titanium, but do they really think we see a connection?
The whole thing is marketing nowadays and there always has to be a new flavor Not like in the old days when if you wanted guitar strings there was Augustine. Period. Yes Black Diamond sold strings that were DOA. They are still in business surprisingly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 21:25:10

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to aeolus)

All the black/red strings Ive tried sound different than clear trebles. They also feel different and I think they might be a bit thinner at the same tension.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 21:31:33

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

The problem I have with carbon trebles first and second is they are so thin. This may be psychological but I read were JWilliams had D'addario make him up some thicker 1st strings. Well if you'r JW you can do that. So I am not looking for thinner strings. Richard Brune when he examined Segovia's Hauser at MOMA though that he might have had a 2nd string for a first. But the problem is I guess that the first string on a guitar is rather tinny.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 21:43:59

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

I would like to know what is the difference in composition of colored trebles and regular nylon. Like the titanium trebles. Yes they have the same color as the metal I suppose not ever having seen titanium, but do they really think we see a connection?
The whole thing is marketing nowadays and there always has to be a new flavor

I disagree, Aelus, at least to the extent of color strings being a novel marketing stratagem of sort. In fact, it is neither a new thing [colored strings are quite a traditional component of -for instance- the Mariachi instrumentation] nor simply a gimmick. The dying process renders them stiffer, which causes them to acquire and lose some properties. It is -as always- indisputably subjective a choice.

I tried -in a coquetry of decadent player's vanity- red strings [really red, not like the translucent purplish LaBella] from http://www.guadalupecustomstrings.com/1652.html

From GuadalupeCustomStrings: "Nylon is a synthetic petroleum based plastic. It is produced exclusively by its patent holders and cannot be produced by anyone else. We... use a type of nylon made specifically for musical instrument strings. We offer all available gauges in either clear, black, or hand dyed colors. We use a safe, non-toxic, natural dye. Used for classical guitar trebles, jaranas, ukuleles, and more."

I found them to be indeed more brilliant and even louder than plain nylon, but their stiffness [at least in my view] killed the lyrical tone that makes me want to play nylon strings [instead of steel].

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 22:25:49

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

From GuadalupeCustomStrings: "Nylon is a synthetic petroleum based plastic. It is produced exclusively by its patent holders and cannot be produced by anyone else. We... use a type of nylon made specifically for musical instrument strings. We offer all available gauges in either clear, black, or hand dyed colors. We use a safe, non-toxic, natural dye. Used for classical guitar trebles, jaranas, ukuleles, and more."

I found them to be indeed more brilliant and even louder than plain nylon, but their stiffness [at least in my view] killed the lyrical tone that makes me want to play nylon strings [instead of steel].

As I thought it all comes from DuPont and the coloring is marketing to a large extent but I agree with you that the colored were stiffer and were not lyrical. The Hannabach flamenco were the best I have tried. One would assume that all clear nylon would sound the same but I really thought I heard a different sound from the LaBella 202 nylon on my cypress/spruce. The Argento silver set comes with a set of rectified trebles as well as the nylons but I haven't tried them yet.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2013 22:57:01

etta

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

I play the strings that sound best; I adapt to the dimensions. Savarez Alliance H.T. kick butt and especially the 3rd. It pops and punches. But, each to their own.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 0:05:18

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to etta)

Adapting is something we all do, even when playing different guitars. The thing is that to me it feels better to have more evenly tensioned trebles. There are treble sets where the E is stiff and the B is soft, that doesnt feel too good when doing picado.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 0:09:57

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

Javier Conde's video [by the way, a lovely Granaina].

The Granaina is called La Cartuja by Gerardo Nunez.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 1:28:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

Here's same guitar same black strings same piece....different guy.

A good comparison, but I think the nails make a difference, by that I mean shape. I feel Javier has kind of a harsh attack as good as he is, and my opinion is he could get that silky crisp tone nuñez gets if he filed different. Strings are a minor detail.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 13:09:04

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Here's same guitar same black strings same piece....different guy.

Thanks for that link, it reunited me with some of my favorite Nuñez tracks i once had on tape.... that tape was trusted to a student and never returned :-(.

What was the name of the original album?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 15:35:03

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

same black strings

The difference being the purpose of this thread, 'blending strings':
Javier used only two black trebles, G & B, but kept nylon as his E.
Gerardo has them all black.

'could not agree more, however, on the significant difference in tone, which really is between the players -not the strings!!

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 16:12:02

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

It never ceases to amaze me that people still attempt to seriously evaluate strings, guitars, players or whatever based on what they hear on some crappy YouTube video.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 17:25:03

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

It never ceases to amaze me that people still attempt to seriously evaluate strings, guitars, players or whatever based on what they hear on some crappy YouTube video.

Maybe you meant "based on what they hear from the audio that was captured somewhere by some microphone/hardware/processors, compressed, maybe re-compressed by youtube and finally brought to you by your soundcard and crappy speakers"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 17:37:03

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

I though Javier's sound was superior to Gerardo's. Probably that clear nylon first. Or the guitar. Or the acoustic. Or the mike and recording equipment. Or his attack. Is there a teen among the membership that can render a definitive opinion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 17:41:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

I though Javier's sound was superior to Gerardo's. Probably that clear nylon first. Or the guitar. Or the acoustic. Or the mike and recording equipment. Or his attack. Is there a teen among the membership that can render a definitive opinion.

Obviously your taste, none of the rest.

I for one can hear nail shape through all the filtered mess, it's like as easy as someone speaking with an accent or not regardless of eq compressor volume etc. It's not so amazing.

quote:

It never ceases to amaze me that people still attempt to seriously evaluate strings, guitars, players or whatever based on what they hear on some crappy YouTube video.

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 17:55:00

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

Too much nail for Javier? I'd buy that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 18:21:24

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

It never ceases to amaze me that people still attempt to seriously evaluate strings, guitars, players or whatever based on what they hear on some crappy YouTube video.

Oh boy... here we go again... Let me put things back into context, Senor Vega. This thread is solely about clear nylon and colored strings, and the mixing of the two. A cosmetic issue which is rather obvious on my screen [if is not on yours, i must recommend you consdier purchasing a new computer]

As to the tone, the point that Ricardo made is clear even though the quality of sound may be indeed 'poor' [I do not subscribe to your choice of words]. Javier has a much more agressive approach than Gerardo, and it is quite obvious even by simply juxtaposing the two clips referenced in this thread.

If anything, I am stunned by how some contributors may move such mocking criticism, without either reading the thread or listening to the recordings, as your post shows.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 18:21:39

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

Deleted

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 18:39:04

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

My computer is fine, thank you very much.

A cosmetic issue? Good grief. Do you usually choose strings for cosmetic reasons? Maybe you've been in the fashion business too long.

It might almost be a worthwhile comparison if it were the same player playing the same piece on the same guitar under the same recording conditions with the only difference being the strings but otherwise it's all rather pointless.

Do any of you really think that you could tell whether a player was using clear or colored strings (or a mix of two or three colors), either on a recording or in a live performance, if you couldn't see the strings?
I rather doubt it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 18:57:29

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

I want real cat gut strings, that'd be super metal. I don't even wanna use them, just have them.
I think imma start an online magazine for nylon guitars called Cat Gut, that'd be awesome

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 19:27:08

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

Do you usually choose strings for cosmetic reasons? Maybe you've been in the fashion business too long.

I have been in the Fashion LAW business for too long to resist the desire to argue, when obstinately misquoted and out of context.

But, I have joined a number of members here, in a solemn promise not to let 'conversation' turn into 'confrontation', however irritating the opponent. And -to your disappointment, I am sure- I will keep such promise.

I love guitars, and everything appurtenant to them, from wood to tuning machines and pegs, from rosettes to choice of strings, and -above all- the world and art they jointly conjure, music. I play at least one hour every day, occasionally making little progress, sometimes conceding I should quit and play the Horn, mostly thanking the Lord for giving me such opportunity, to keenly indulge my passion, on a guitar I adore, and then for being able to share my music, views and doubts with a few, phenomenal people on this Forum, who understand this entire post.... and I regret to say that someone creditably knowledgeable of music, as you are, would not be in that number. Why Charles?

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 19:58:51

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

Appurtenant. Wow. I'm impressed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 21:39:42

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

Appurtenant. Wow. I'm impressed.

From your reply one could draw many conclusions, but that which strikes me as stunning, is that it is now obvious you... can't play guitar.

You only derive a somehow perverse pleasure by offering hollow criticism, in your half-witted satire. 'get a life... , [as they say] ... or better yet... 'get a guitar.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2013 23:35:26

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Blending Strings (in reply to gj Michelob)

it is a legitimate point about holding variables constant except for strings--scientific research demands such methodology. unfortunately this is difficult to do in a non-lab environment. most of us have done this in our quest to find "the perfect string" for a given guitar. and many of us find that the "perfect string" on one guitar sucks on another guitar.

it would be interesting reading if a materials engineer grad student decided to research nylon guitar strings and publish his or her findings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2013 0:07:50