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Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla?   You are logged in as Guest
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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? 
Back in the 1950's, when I first got into flamenco, there was a popular flamenco guitarist named Luis Maravilla, who made a lot or recordings, and seemed to be very popular in Spain and the U.K.

Nobody on this Foro seems to mention him any more. Why is that?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2013 13:33:08
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
Well, I guess he died by now, along with the rest of his contemporaries – Sabicas, Nino Ricardo, Pepe Martinez, Carlos Montoya, Melchor de Marchena, Mario Escudero, etc. If not, he would be just about a hundred years old.

I’m not sure, but I think his daughter was the bailaora, Luisa Maravilla, who was married to Donn Pohren, the author of “The Art of Flamenco.”

Luis was a fine flamenco guitarist, who accompanied many singers and dancers. He also played classical guitar. A long time ago I had a two LP set of his playing, which also included sheet music for both records.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 3:38:50
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
you got me curious about this name, which i have heard of, and of course as PC mentioned his maybe daughter Luisa, an also familiar name

first stop google -

second stop wikipedia -

Luis Maravilla (Luis Lopez Tejera) (1 June 1914 – 2000) was a Flamenco composer. He was born in Seville, Spain.

Maravilla studied guitar under Marcelo Molina and Pepe de Badajoz, and debuted professionally at the age of 12 in the Pavon Theatre of Seville. In the 1930s he toured much of North and South America. The Spanish Civil War brought him to France. Returning to Spain in 1940, he performed with such troupes as Gracia de Triana and Estrellita Castro. Maravilla retired in 1957 to begin teaching.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 12:02:41
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

Well, I guess he died by now, along with the rest of his contemporaries


Yes, I was pretty certain he must be dead, as you mentioned.

But the real point of my post was; why is his name never mentoned on the Foro?

The names of his contemporaries ( as per your listing) are frequently quoted in here, but I dont recall ever seeing a mention of Luis Maravilla. I was just wondering why that was, as he was quite a popular guitarist in his day. . .

Maybe he was not quite as "flamenco" as some of his contemporaries?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 13:13:11
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

The names of his contemporaries ( as per your listing) are frequently quoted in here, but I dont recall ever seeing a mention of Luis Maravilla. I was just wondering why that was, as he was quite a popular guitarist in his day. . .


One possibility is that although he was a highly accomplished guitarist he was not on the virtuoso level of say Sabicas or Mario Escudero.

Also he was primarily an accompanist, whereas some of the others were primarily soloists, who toured the world, and so their names became far better known.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 14:21:06
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

But the real point of my post was; why is his name never mentoned on the Foro?

You should not consider the foro as a place where all the info is covered. Like in real life, it's a mediatisation issue...maybe even more than in real life coz most of us are very far from the cultural flamenco background.

just my 2 cts.


EDIT
quote:

Also he was primarily an accompanist, whereas some of the others were primarily soloists, who toured the world, and so their names became far better known.

And of course bear in mind that the foro is principaly focused on solo guitar side.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 14:25:14

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
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RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
Luis Maravilla died in 2000.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 15:45:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

But the real point of my post was; why is his name never mentoned on the Foro?


The Ramon Montoya guitar I played a few months back, owned by Richard Brune, was acquired from Luis Maravilla.

Other than that guitar and Pohren, I am not real familiar with him or any recordings. THe reason he doesn't get mentioned I would assume is he is not (far as I know) a featured figura associated with a famous cantaor...in comparison to the scores of other players featured on important historic recordings used by aficionados and artists to study. If anybody would like to point folks to one it would be great. Until then we have to assume he is not talked about simply because the recordings are hard to find.

If you want more info I would recommend emailing Richard Brune.
Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 20:01:42
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
Here he is playing a traditional Bulerias. I have heard Pepe Martinez play several of the same falsetas, and I learned some of them from Mario Escudero.



Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 21:01:40
 
Ramon Amira

 

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Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
And here is Pepe Martinez playing Bulerias.

http://www.myspace.com/PEPEMARTINEZDIAZ/music/songs/buler-as-40114483

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2013 21:15:32
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
picado fest solos are cool but put him in the solista category with aficionados. Here I found a nice solea accompaniment of Jose Cepero of jerez. His style if very influenced by Montoya, but maybe he was using his guitar!



Two things that might have not made him as popular based on this, compared perhaps to his colleagues of the time montoya, melchor Ricardo etc, he doesn't ever play Am or C in his accompaniment of this style of singing, which certainly caught on with other accompanists. Don't get me wrong, what he plays works fine but is not the more blue print version. Surely his compas is great though.

By the way, even though that fast Aminor picado fest buleria is popularized by Ricardo and Sabicas on solos, Montoya used to end his bulerias this way too.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2013 15:55:54
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

But the real point of my post was; why is his name never mentoned on the Foro?


did you check the search? his name comes up in a few other threads, and there were a few threads just about him (ok, they were short) here's one;

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=41647&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=luis%2Cmaravilla&tmode=&smode=&s=#41660

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2013 17:58:26
 
NormanKliman

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RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
Although he had the technique that everyone aims for today (clean), his playing lacked the drive, weight and complexity that characterize flamenco. He was a follower of Montoya, along the lines of Pepe Martínez but a lot more soft and boring. Today he's best remembered for accompanying Bernardo el de Los Lobitos but he made other recordings, some solo and some with singing. I recall hearing that Pohren's wife was not Luis' daughter and that the misconception has to do with Pohren's choice of the artistic name "Daniel Maravilla" early in his career. I went to see Luis at his guitar shop on calle León in Madrid in the late 1980s. I had just discovered flamenco and was eager to learn, so I asked him about lessons. He was a complete jerk. He limited his responses to a simple "no" without even so much as looking me in the face (while filing his nails). Wouldn't even point me in the right direction. I should point out that my poor impression of him as a person has nothing to do with my unflattering description of his playing. I've always liked the aire of calm precision in his accompaniment of Bernardo's namesake bulería, but most everything else he recorded sounds like it was stale even back in the day.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2013 20:29:41
 
Ramon Amira

 

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From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

but most everything else he recorded sounds like it was stale even back in the day.


I found nothing "stale" or "boring" in that Bulerias I posted, nor in the Soleares accompaniment Ricardo posted.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2013 20:37:42
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

, his playing lacked the drive, weight and complexity that characterize flamenco.


Interesting observation.

Back in the fifties in England, there was a very knowledgable flamenco guitarist named Michael Fisher(not a professional) who wrote an excellent series of articles on flamenco in a monthly magazine called BMG (Banjo, Mandolin, Guitar) published by the Clifford Essex Music Company. He was friendly with Marcelo Barbero and had one of his guitars. One of Michael's articles was advising students what recordings and artists they should listen to for hearing and studying 'authentic' flamenco. I recall he specifically mentioned Luis Maravilla as being excluded from this category.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 13:37:46
 
Ramon Amira

 

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From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

One of Michael's articles was advising students what recordings and artists they should listen to for hearing and studying 'authentic' flamenco. I recall he specifically mentioned Luis Maravilla as being excluded from this category.



Over a very long career Luis Maravilla accompanied countless prominent flamenco singers and dancers. In many or even most cases these artists generally could choose their accompanist. Does anyone really suppose that so many of them would have Maravilla accompany them if he wasn’t playing “authentic flamenco.”

It’s true that his style was more lyrical, which worked better for toque libre than for the rhythmic palos. But that doesn’t mean his playing was not authentic flamenco. It just means he had his own style, which is more than can be said for many flamenco guitarists.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 15:13:08
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

I recall hearing that Pohren's wife was not Luis' daughter and that the misconception has to do with Pohren's choice of the artistic name "Daniel Maravilla" early in his career.


This is correct: Luisa’s real name is Blanca Luisa Bergasse.

I can now also reveal that Manolo Sanlúcar is not Esteban’s son.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 15:40:14
 
NormanKliman

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RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

Over a very long career Luis Maravilla accompanied countless prominent flamenco singers and dancers. In many or even most cases these artists generally could choose their accompanist. Does anyone really suppose that so many of them would have Maravilla accompany them if he wasn’t playing “authentic flamenco.”


Well, "countless" is one just unfortunate choice of words. Luis' father was the singer Niño de las Marianas, which very likely had something to do with his son's career. Sorry to see you taking this personally, but you're resorting to failed logic.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 21:42:59
 
Ramon Amira

 

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From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

Sorry to see you taking this personally


Actually – despite your disclaimer – it seems that because of your experience with him that you are the one taking it personally.

I’m not taking anything personally - I didn’t even know Luis Maravilla. I’m just going by what I hear on his recordings. What I hear is perfectly good flamenco, and it seems outlandish to say that it’s “not authentic flamenco.”

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 23:35:43
 
Mark2

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Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
some really nice falsetas in there.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

Here he is playing a traditional Bulerias. I have heard Pepe Martinez play several of the same falsetas, and I learned some of them from Mario Escudero.



Ramon
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 23:45:03
 
Ramon Amira

 

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From: New York City

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Mark2) 
quote:

some really nice falsetas in there.


But they are not authentic flamenco.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2013 23:53:43
 
Mark2

Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
Well if the guy had treated me like he did Norman, I'd probably say he couldn't tune his guitar, but I'm thin skinned. Totally unsuited to be a foreign born flamenco guitarist.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2013 0:02:53
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

and it seems outlandish to say that it’s “not authentic flamenco.”


Perhaps I should jump back in here and say that it was maybe my unfortunate choice of words that seems to have provoked this confrontation.

In retrospect, perhaps what I should have said was that the 1950's British authority - who I have always held in the greatest respect - was advising students of flamenco on what artists and recordings were the most valuable for listening to, and learning from. My recollection is that he did not condemn Luis Maravilla as not playing "authentic " flamenco. But that there were other guitarists/recordings that were more appropriate for listening and learning. The word "authentic" was mine. Bad choice. . .

Sorry for any misunderstandings here. . .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2013 0:52:26
 
Paul Magnussen

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From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

a monthly magazine called BMG (Banjo, Mandolin, Guitar) published by the Clifford Essex Music Company.


If you remember that, then you probably recall the late Peter Sensier, aka Pepe of Dorita y Pepe. He wrote a regular column for BMG — I’ve been trying to remember, what was it called? All my BMGs are in storage in England, so I can’t look it up.

But anyway, I didn’t start playing guitar until 4 Feb 1964, so the ’50s are before my time.

BTW, he was also a skilled luthier; he did a beautiful job of repolishing my first flamenco guitar (which was Mexican, a Benjamin García, from Paracho — and very nice it was, too, before some clown in Córdoba smashed it. Has anyone else come across these guitars?)

No doubt you’ll also recall Harmony for Guitarists, by Jack Duarte. I wish I had the whole thing; it was much more thorough than the slim book he subsequently published.

Here’s a thread about Dorita y Pepe. I see they have no Wikipedia article; that seems a deficiency, considering how long they were mainstays of the BBC…

http://whirligigtv.yuku.com/topic/2118

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2013 16:23:35
 
britguy

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From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to Paul Magnussen) 
quote:

then you probably recall the late Peter Sensier, aka Pepe of Dorita y Pepe.


Yes, I had some correspondence with Peter Sensier in the 1950's. He had a popular dou act with Dorothy Dries, called 'Dorita y Pepe', playing mostly Latin American love songs. They were regulars on the BBC's "Guitar Club" programme ( and others also) and he did have a regular column in BMG magazine.

He also started a column in BMG called: "The Art of Flamenco" , which was later taken over by Michael E. Fisher - who directed me to ( his, and later my) flamenco teacher Manuel Bonet in Madrid. Michael was( is) a very definitive authority on flamenco as it was played in the 1950's, and his articles were a considerable source of inspiration for us poor Limey aficionados with little or no access to flamenco in those days.

I recently located Michael via Google and Wikipedia. He is a now a world-renowned, highly respected and much-published theoretical scientist. And at 81 years old is still lecturing at the University of Maryland. He would be a great addition to this forum.

I directed Michael to Norman Kliman's site. As he(Norman) is very familiar with our mutual 'professor de guitarra', I'm sure he would be very happy to be in contact with him.

Sorry, I dont remember the name of Peter Sensier's column. But an email to Clifford Essex would probably help you.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2013 23:16:39
 
RobJe

 

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From: UK

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to britguy) 
He had a career which spanned some difficult times in Spain. Here is his own perspective on events.

http://www.flamencoexperience.com/blog/?p=32
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2013 9:59:32
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14855
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From: Washington DC

RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to RobJe) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

He had a career which spanned some difficult times in Spain. Here is his own perspective on events.

http://www.flamencoexperience.com/blog/?p=32



Wow really great interview! I like all his insights, for a 76 year old guy very sharp with dates and events. Also his perceptions on modern flamenco I found quite accurate, though generalized. Some Sabicas fans might be bothered about his little critic there...and his generalization that modern guitar can all be whittled down to copies of Paco and Manolo I find accurate. I guess if you are into one modern player or other you would be quick to point out details and unique ideas, but generally it's true what he says, and the focus on rhythm etc.

At one point he makes it clear guitar playing influences and evolution are "a chain" so everyone is influenced by the one before, and he keeps pointing to Ramon which I agree with too. I love that as an old guy he never even mentions the word "jazz" or harmonies etc as he can hear right through that stuff that it's flamenco either more rhythmically beefed up (paco) or "classically" composed (manolo), or instrumentally as a novelty, and I agree. Of course he feels the basic melodic nature of guitar playing has disappeared amongst all the sophistication.

Also his opinions of certain old singers I concur with and dangers for the future of cante (yet guitar playing is in no danger and doing well even if it is copies of Paco.) I only wish he had made mention of that darn guitar I played, I'd love to hear more from the horses mouth how he got it and what it was used for etc. oh well.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2013 13:33:55
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2188
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RE: Whatever happened to Luis Maravilla? (in reply to RobJe) 
Ole Luis: with a CV like this it makes you wonder about the perception of his critics, none of whom could muster a CV even near
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2013 17:41:36
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