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suniram

Posts: 50
Joined: May 18 2010
From: Germany/Spain

what tuners are these ? 
could anybody tell me, what tuners these are?

thanks



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 11:54:11
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
I'd say these are probably Graf tuners
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 12:05:41

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
They look Chinese to me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 13:41:47
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to C. Vega) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

They look Chinese to me.


second that. No way I would guess graf.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 13:50:54
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
http://www.yoshizumi-guitar.com/daketraphagen/woods&parts.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 16:33:31
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Erik van Goch) 
On Erik's link, the Sloanes have different side plates, and the Grafs have little knobby things at the tops of the worm gears that the OP's tuners don't have.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 17:36:04

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
The plates on the tuners shown by the OP bear some resemblance to the Grafs but nothing else about them really does.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 17:40:23
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
Yes, maybe it's not Graf, The screws are different, and don't have that little "cover" Though You can order with different specs.
Cheap chinese ones usually don't have a "closed" bracket at the pin end...
but I dont find that exact motive at neither "big names"...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 18:29:51
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
It's a bit like checking out a horse - look at the teeth - even count them! These cheapies are 14:1.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 18:52:49
 
flyhere

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 19:11:32
 
suniram

Posts: 50
Joined: May 18 2010
From: Germany/Spain

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
Hey, thanks a lot for all the input. Didnt know that about the teeth. Really good info..

So, probably they are in fact a chinese copy of whatever or whatever.
But in reality they look and feel like anything else than like cheap crap. (maybe in the Photo it cant be appreciated). I like them ...

best regards
Marinus

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 19:37:10
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to flyhere) 
Those are most likely Der Jung tuners from Taiwan. Quality is comparable to Gotoh. I use them and like them a lot. Definitely not junk!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 21:40:45
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
i concur with john shelton--most likely der jung. i have a set "rubner style" on a cordoba 50 and they work surprisingly well. i think i paid a total of $30 from a taiwan dealer at the bay.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2013 22:21:23
 
suniram

Posts: 50
Joined: May 18 2010
From: Germany/Spain

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
good to know about that brand...thanks

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 9:16:53
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
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RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
I´ve used these.
They had them at madinter. I didnt like them very much.
They are not DJ (Der Jong). Or at least they had another name back then. They are pretty though.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 10:33:52
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I´ve used these.
They had them at madinter. I didnt like them very much.
They are not DJ (Der Jong). Or at least they had another name back then. They are pretty though.

Thanks Anders, I was just guessing that they were Der Jung since they make so many styles. I've tried several different designs from them and found them to be very similar in quality to Gotoh.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 14:14:01
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
Those Derjungs that i tried to tune, REALLY SUCKED , extremely incosistent, not smooth at all, we took them off just to see if there is something wrong with the guitar holes or something else, since this was the case with different guitars and not only one... installed another tuner on the guitars and no problem- as soon as those derjungs were installed, strung and under pressure from strings, they were like ****. Worst piece of crap i have ever touched. Specially the right side (treble strings).

They just look fancy. Thats all.

After all they are chinese and i always prefer european, american or japanese quality over chinese. I wouldn't recommand luthiers to use them, stick to gotoh or whatever, even if you have to pay $10 more . Also chinese tend to give ok quality at the beginning to attract attention, and as soon as they get a little "famous" and have a customer base, the quality decreases to total crap quality until people start to complain, and then they get a little better again and so on and so on... not worth the few dollars you save. Also i don't trust their quality control in their factories. You might be lucky and get good ones or unlucky and get the crap batch.

I am not a luthier, just a player who had experience with three of these derjungs and all were of crappiest quality ever.
Also lost our time and lot of headache trying to find out whats wrong.
Give me a simple looking gotoh that runs smooth anyday.


By the way, going to buy one of these aluminum ones for my blanca.
Saw it in the music fair and had it in my hand. Weighs nothing.
(i will take ebony knobs instead)

http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=35g510s

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2013 16:05:26
 
NAB

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 31 2013
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Arash) 
Andy is building a blanca for me and I went with the 35G510 tuners. I had my heart set on them until I found out the price. After humming and hawing about the cost, I decided to go for it. How often does one get a guitar custom-made after all.

He told me they are pretty sweet.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2013 16:49:06
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
Arash, make sure you get those with nylon roller bearings. They are IMHO the nicest tuner I´ve tried. I think they are called 35AR510S-BB ( I think its the AR that means roller bearings)

But they cost 5 - 10 times more than the DerJungs that you dont like and thats what its all about (money)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2013 17:03:49
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Arash, make sure you get those with nylon roller bearings. They are IMHO the nicest tuner I´ve tried. I think they are called 35AR510S-BB ( I think its the AR that means roller bearings)

But they cost 5 - 10 times more than the DerJungs that you dont like and thats what its all about (money)


Hey Anders, thanks for the info about nylon roller bearings. Appreciated.
Thats the one.

http://www.madinter.com/accessories/tuning-machines-pegs/tuning-machines-gotoh/gotoh-classical-guitar-tuning-machine/gotoh-35ar-510s-en-n-b-ebony-knobs.html

Yeah i know, they are expensive.
But i had Gotohs on my guitars anyway and they were good (not derjungs, those were on other guitars not mine), Just want to try out and see how these aluminum ones are and what it feels like with even lesser weight, etc. Glad that you had also such a positive experience.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2013 17:13:08
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to suniram) 
Jeez, that link blocked from here too! - Is Madinter featering boobs now, or what is up.

As you guys are saying that these tuners are pricy, I wanted to also look at the price label.
Because, if the come close to what a set from Klaus Scheller costs: By all means try out those.
I have been raving about Schellers on this forum ( and on former AG) and they are really one of a kind in the top of the line shelves. No other seem to perform like these. If you want to crown a very special guitar ...

Besides, lighter pegheads are not supposed to fit any guitar, but only pliable tops. Stiffer ones can use a bit mass / inertia from the head to get them moving.

Just my 2cents.

Ruphus


PS:

Been to his site after this post. Have never been too big a fan of ornamental engravings and my next set shall be with a plain base too ( like the last one), but the below one is the first engraving that impresses me.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2013 0:25:41
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus


Because, if the come close to what a set from Klaus Scheller costs: By all means try out those.
I have been raving about Schellers on this forum ( and on former AG) and they are really one of a kind in the top of the line shelves. No other seem to perform like these. If you want to crown a very special guitar ...



Just my 2cents.

Ruphus


PS:



Friend of mine who is mostly playing classical had one set of klaus scheller consisting of 6 pieces single tuners (they were not on 2 plates but each one was seperate). they were not installed on a guitar so i couldn't try them on a guitar but they looked and felt extremely fine and i think they have some special characteristics like ball bearing, etc.
That set was planned to be used for a classical guitar from Tony Müller in germany, but he used other ones for that. So now this set (i think its around 500 euros) was there been unused and he wants to use it on a flamenco guitar now. I couldn't find this model at Schellers website.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2013 4:36:43
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

Besides, lighter pegheads are not supposed to fit any guitar, but only pliable tops. Stiffer ones can use a bit mass / inertia from the head to get them moving.


I dont know how much experience you have with this or if its pure theoretical speculation.
My opinion, based on experience, is that if a flamenco guitar needs what you argue, then the problem was the builder.

Classicals are another story bacause its a different guitar with different sound esthetics

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2013 7:36:59
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: what tuners are these ? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
Hey Arash,

you must be meaning these.


If you click on the arrows of the left first window on http://www.gitarrenmechaniken.de/mechaniken/mechaniken.html the pic will show up. You can then display it with different knobs in the right window.

Before eventual order one should aks him about versions not shown on the website, and remember that torque can be had to desire. ( Klaus supplies them stiffer than they can be, for as he says, too light torque makes people think there was something broken. hehe )

Precision tuning with these is a dream.
- But I will have to skip a new purchase. ( Euro is four times more expensive from here and Klaus will just grant no discount, as he confirmed to me yesterday again. :0/ )
Will have to swap last set to the future guitar.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I dont know how much experience you have with this or if its pure theoretical speculation.
My opinion, based on experience, is that if a flamenco guitar needs what you argue, then the problem was the builder.

Classicals are another story bacause its a different guitar with different sound esthetics


I picked that from highly educated colleagues of yours. And as I envision from common physics, it seems to makes sense in general.

As you correctly figured it was about classicals.

Interesting how you pinpointed that, eventhough there exist flamencas with slow tops too.

Otherwise I think to see what you mean with the difference, when it is aimed for sustain and depth with classicals through mass in certain areas. ( Correct?)

Ruphus

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