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RE: Segovia and flamenco
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guitarbuddha
Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
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RE: Segovia and flamenco (in reply to Grisha)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Grisha This is an interesting topic. Perhaps it deserves a new thread. I'd love to jump in, but that has to wait until Monday at the earliest. Meanwhile, can one draw parallels to mathematics somehow? What new delights await us on monday all things going well ? As for 'mathematics' in music well I hear a lot of geometry and arithmetic. I hear pythagoras on ,,,,the ,,, Ud (watch out for the mobile comma) but mostly just blue notes in flamenco. Maybe the fractal nature of compas and the way in which different cells can be mapped onto others using diminution or augmentatio, oops that is geometry again. Did we get to Ligeti get ? Maybe statistics, how about giving us a few novel examples from the many many options for reharmonising the andalucian cadence Grish ? My personal favourite has to be All the Things You Are. Segovia recorded some Luis Milan didn't he but never got past the first of Rodrigos three spanish pieces. D. PS Ricardo,,, Breame was fond at one point of using his nose in tricky passages.
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Date Mar. 29 2013 0:17:59
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Ramon Amira
Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City
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RE: Segovia and flamenco (in reply to estebanana)
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Well, Steven, there’s no point in going in circles any more, so I won’t post any further on this thread. I have perfectly well elucidated why I feel that 4’33” is pretentious – because it is pretentious. That is a clear elucidation, and requires no further elaboration, nor can it admit of any elaboration, since there is obviously no way of putting into words why you find something pretentious, except to say that a piece of “music” with no music strikes me as pretentious on the face of it, and I don’t accept that any “context” can alter that. But in any case, in rereading some of this thread, it’s gotten somewhat more acrimonious than befits reasonable discourse. I will happily retract my characterization of Cage as a “buffoon.” Again, I was mostly referring to 4’33”. But to say that I don’t understand it is simply to say that your opinion is somehow superior to mine. I in fact have listened to plenty of Cage and Glass, and I also will gladly concede that they are serious composers. I don’t like their music. You do. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. It is my general feeling that more people agree with mine than with yours. But who knows, your opinion might easily prove to become the prevailing opinion in time – even Chopin’s music was called radical by some in his own time. Ramon
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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
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Date Mar. 29 2013 3:28:50
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Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Segovia and flamenco (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
The problem is that you guys don't get it it. You simply are not understanding that there is a difference between thinking experimentally and conceptually with no boundaries of rationality and the other side of the coin which is that you must use the nuts a bolts of music to manifest that concept as listenable music. By saying you guys you mean me, and that "i don't get it" and am one of the many "idiots" that surround you. You condescend with that thing, but that 's ok cuz you like guys like Cage. I like it too, perhaps the ideas more than the actual thing. I hoped you would just keep trying to explain your point, but you are giving up. That's cool. Anyway, you feel Glass and Cage are conceptually "free" to compose with no boundaries, and I argue simply that I disagree, they might THINK thats what they are doing but they are in fact composing poop in a Glass-Cage. More confined than normal flying musician. No true freedom without the discipline. It's my idiot/don't get it opinion I guess, sorry. Nuts and bolts everywhere is just how I see it, and that is the beauty, down to the threads. You can't just say "composers should be able....", there are always parameters. I composed a piece that is a guaranteed fountain of youth. All you have to do is play the notes, backwards in time.
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Mar. 29 2013 6:54:29
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