New Guitar

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New Guitar

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daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

New Guitar

Greetings All,
I received my new guitar today and saw this on the back of the guitar. Seems to be a split, but under the lacquer??? Can anyone enlighten me.

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2013 19:07:28

Morante

Posts: 2184
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Return it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2013 19:25:40

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Return

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2013 19:36:06

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Sean)

Being that it is under the lacquer, would you think that the builder saw it, but shipped it out to me anyway....hoping I would not notice??

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2013 19:40:57

escot

Posts: 28
Joined: Jan. 2 2013

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

very unfortunate! what guitar is this?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2013 22:10:51

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Sean)

They are blaming the mail man said they inspected it before they shipped

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 1:11:46

Alain Moisan

Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 24 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

I'm not convinced this is a crack.

Here is a picture of a spanish cedar neck blank I have.

You can clearly see a similar line. It is not a crack, just some darker line in the wood.

Do you think it might be something similar?

I have a hard time believing a builder would have fully finished a cracked back, and send it out to the customer.

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Alain Moisan
Les Guitares Moisan
www.guitaresmoisan.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 1:18:01

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Alain Moisan)

It's a cypress back, the finish feels smooth. Possibly, but would you consider this flawed?

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 1:33:21

Alain Moisan

Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 24 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Hard to tell. Assuming it is just a darker grain line, I don't know if it is more fragile (prone to splt or crack) than the rest of the board. I have never seen cypress with it, but then I have not work that often with cypress either (most of my flamencos are made of sycamore).

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Alain Moisan
Les Guitares Moisan
www.guitaresmoisan.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 1:44:00

Alain Moisan

Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 24 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

If you look inside the guitar, you should see a reinforcement patch (a thin crossgrain piece of wood runing along the back center seam). If the patch is large enough to cover the line, then I say your good.

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Alain Moisan
Les Guitares Moisan
www.guitaresmoisan.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 1:46:28

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Alain Moisan)

It is covered by that strip

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 1:52:15

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Looks like it would be along the edge of the back strip. Does the line go the full length of the back or stop at the back cross brace?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 2:42:50

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Sean)

quote:

Looks like it would be along the edge of the back strip.

That's what I was thinking...
It almost looks too dark to be a fresh crack, but I've never really seen lines like that in cypress.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 2:47:58

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

the paper I rolled up follows the length

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 2:59:24

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

shine a light inside and see if you can see it as a crack?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 3:02:10

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to HolyEvil)

nothing visible, however, it is covered by the peice of wood that connects the neck to the body, then below that is the backstrip

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 3:08:33

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to HolyEvil)

inside the guitar

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 3:13:37

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Very dark lines in Cypress is pretty common. Here they are called "tierra", meaning earth. This one looks to contrasty to be like that and it could be a crack. But its difficult to judge from a photo.
Also, tierra lines normally show up on both sides of the bookmached set of wood.

Tierra is not considered a flaw. Not even esthetically. You´ll find persons prefering cypress with tierra lines because it gives "life" to the wood.

Cracks on new guitars are flaws.

Did you contact the builder or seller?. And what did he/she say? Always remember to contact and discuss with builder/seller, before bringing things out on the web.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 7:51:35

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daffeey
They are blaming the mail man said they inspected it before they shipped

Ok, so they can take that up with their insurers - I assume it was insured when shipped?

But still this is all irrelevant if there is no problem, and as you can see you cannot get a definitive answer from photos. Take the guitar to a local, reputable luthier/guitar tech for their opinion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 9:00:50

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

If the seller say "the postman did it" and at the same time they inspected it, you can conclude it was not there when they inspected it.
Don't you have a return policy when you are not satified? Or a guaranty? If so, send it back and ask for your money, or another guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 9:19:21

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

It would be nice if you told us the name of this store so we know to be prudent if we buy there.

How could the postman (not the butler) have done it? He opened up the box, saw the crack, varnished it, repacked it and delivered it to you? There is 0 doubt that a varnished crack or line like was done at production time, or at the store....

This happened to me for a negra I had bought my son. It was an Alhambra, I spent the day at The 12th Fret in Toronto trying out guitars, finally I picked one and bought it. When I got to where I was staying, I played it and took a better look at it, the room was much brighter. I realized that there was a fold in the wood on the back of the guitar. A big spot where the grain was completely twisted, folded. Clearly it did not affect sound because this was the one I preferred but the only thing that stuck in my mind was resale value.
The store was close and it was Saturday. I left the guitar with my friend, e-mailed the store about the problem. They e-mailed back saying they did not know and would have (and offered me) a discount. But I said I did not want it at all so they refunded me. As simple as that.

Where did you buy it from?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 12:50:14

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

As Anders says dark lines in cypress are not uncommon. Here is one on a 2003 guitar that I have. It has a matching line on the other rib. No sign of a crack though.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 19:27:37

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

If it was a dark grain line the maker would have said so, and not to worry about it. Since you contacted them they should be willing to replace, give you a refund, or repair it and give you a good discount.
Stuff happens, it really depends on how they deal with the situation, so give them a chance before running their name through the mud to make things right.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 19:55:39

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Dark grain lines in cypress are common but that just doesn't look like one to me...it isn't mirrored on the other side and it seems out of character with the piece of wood

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2013 23:25:06

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Andy, as i wrote, I dont think its a dark line in the cypress either, the contrast is to high, but photos dont make things very clear.

quote:

Stuff happens, it really depends on how they deal with the situation, so give them a chance before running their name through the mud to make things right.

I totally agree.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2013 7:26:25

daffeey

Posts: 115
Joined: May 20 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

Greetings All,
I purposely didnt address the name of the seller for the specific purpose as we are working towards a resolution. It was just the shock of spending quite a bit of cash on brand new, just built guitar. Opening the case and have my heart drop

However, i do have an update. This specific model will not be built by the builder anymore and that the only replacment he could offer was an upgraded model, which he would discount, but i must cover out of my own pocket. Which is cool, due to te fact that my other option was making a claim with USPS - which i have heard can take up to a year to resolve. which is not okay, and due to the fact that the flaw was under the lacquer, i think wuld be difficult to prove it was damaged by the courier.

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from the city of angels

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2013 14:27:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14829
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daffeey

Greetings All,
I purposely didnt address the name of the seller for the specific purpose as we are working towards a resolution. It was just the shock of spending quite a bit of cash on brand new, just built guitar. Opening the case and have my heart drop
However, i do have an update. This specific model will not be built by the builder anymore and that the only replacment he could offer was an upgraded model, which he would discount, but i must cover out of my own pocket. Which is cool, due to te fact that my other option was making a claim with USPS - which i have heard can take up to a year to resolve. which is not okay, and due to the fact that the flaw was under the lacquer, i think wuld be difficult to prove it was damaged by the courier.

Upgrade at DISCOUNT? THat sounds like they acknowledge its their fault, they should just trade guitars for the better model 1 to 1 IMO.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2013 18:47:30

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daffeey

Greetings All,
I purposely didnt address the name of the seller for the specific purpose as we are working towards a resolution.

I hear ya, but it took me all of about 2 minutes to figure out who's label that is...just sayin'

But I for one appreciate that you showed us the issue. Thanks. And I'm glad they're sorting it out for you, too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2013 19:15:31

Alain Moisan

Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 24 2012

RE: New Guitar (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Upgrade at DISCOUNT? THat sounds like they acknowledge its their fault, ...

I believe that may be jumping to conclusion. It is quite possible that the builder/manufacturer just wants to avoid an unhappy customer. It doesn't necessarily means he acknowledges the flaw...

Just about every lutherie supplier I deal with will exchange any package I'm not happy with, for whatever reason, even if it's the postal service's fault. I think that is just doing good business.

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Alain Moisan
Les Guitares Moisan
www.guitaresmoisan.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2013 19:53:29

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: New Guitar (in reply to daffeey)

quote:

I believe that may be jumping to conclusion. It is quite possible that the builder/manufacturer just wants to avoid an unhappy customer. It doesn't necessarily means he acknowledges the flaw...

Just about every lutherie supplier I deal with will exchange any package I'm not happy with, for whatever reason, even if it's the postal service's fault. I think that is just doing good business.

I do this all the time in construction, sometimes it's just easier that way then fighting. (Depending on the issue of course)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2013 21:32:42