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Jaleo Identification/Translation
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granjuanillo
Posts: 32
Joined: Nov. 3 2009
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 RE: Jaleo Identification/Translation (in reply to El Kiko)
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Can't resist a linguistic discussion!
In Spanish, generally, either the letter 'b' or 'v' is pronounced like a 'hard b' at the beginning of a word (like 'b' in English); other places (e.g. between vowels), they are both pronounced the same - a 'soft b' - vibrating between two lips; crucially not like an English 'v' (which involves upper teeth and lower lip). This soft-b is often barely audible, so the sound can almost go away altogether.
However, in rapid speech, you can get the soft-b sound at the start of a word, which would make 'vamos alla' sound like 'amo alla'
There is a lot of confusion over things written 'b' versus 'v', and the Royal Academy has taken various stances over the past few centuries - are they the same? different? They now say they are the same, recognizing the reality of the language and not a fantasy of how things maybe 'should' be.
In linguistic terms, both letters represent the same phoneme with voiced bilabial stop and voiced bilabial fricative allophones. For this reason, speakers need to memorize which words are written with 'b' and which with 'v', leading to spelling errors.
"Haber si me entendais" :-)
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 20 2012 23:00:57
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granjuanillo
Posts: 32
Joined: Nov. 3 2009
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RE: Jaleo Identification/Translation (in reply to Ricardo)
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There are two separate things going on:
(i) the soft-b sound in Spanish is not the same as the English 'v' - in English, 'v' is made with the lips and the teeth; the Spanish sound, is is made with both lips, slightly vibrating (a 'fricative' - i.e., involves friction). Since English doesn't have this sound, English speakers tend to hear it as a 'v' sound. Also some American Spanish speakers (e.g. some second generation Latinos) may sometimes use an English 'v' pronunciation (this has been reported in the literature).
(ii) There is no difference between what is written 'b' vs 'v' in Spanish (at least Standard Spanish, there is some dialect variation, see above). Both are sometime pronounced as 'hard-b' (like and English 'b' - the air is stopped and then released - hence, the term 'stop'), and sometimes as the soft-b sound described above. This depends on the context:
(a) at the beginning of a word or an utterance, you tend to get the hard-b
(b) in the middle of a word (usually, particularly between vowels) you get the soft-b; when words come together, as in 'Sara Baras', the 'B' tends to act like it is between vowels.
Again there is a certain amount of individual and dialect variation here, but this is the general pattern.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 21 2012 16:53:18
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- can someone identify and translate this for me? 
