Barbero guitars

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Barbero guitars

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Gregr

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 21 2012

Barbero guitars

Has anyone a vague guess of the number of guitars that M. Barbero may have made?
I've acquired a Barbero guitar without the paper label. It has his stamp in the neck block and is definitely an old instrument.
I'm currently searching out info on this new find.
A local luthier noted he hasn't seen one since 1962.
I'm curious as to how much repair would be recommended or just leaving it alone and have it as wall art.
Would replacing the top be a huge faux pax?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2012 20:10:20

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Guess you're going to have to rule out the Sherry-Brener Japanese imports from the 1960s & 1970s (often without labels). Someone here will be able to help. Moving to the Lutherie section.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2012 20:25:42

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Photos?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2012 21:58:11

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

quote:

Would replacing the top be a huge faux pax?

Yes if it is an original Barbero that is the part you would want to save the most.

BTW he died in the 1950's

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2012 22:00:13

Gregr

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 21 2012

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to C. Vega)

Photos?
I'm going to have to learn camera, phone image to computer.
I can garaunty this thing is damn near as old as me if not more. It's not of Japanese manufacture. It's hard to replicate the wonderful lightness of a real Flamenco instrument.
It's also hard to fake the patina this guitar has.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2012 0:08:45

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

gregr--you imply you are doing your legwork after acquiring the guitar--how do you know the guitar you have is actually a barbero? photos would be a great help.

as to your comments about fakes--the stories abound about fakes and franken-fakes (a piece from this, a piece from that) and the craftiness of fakers. the japanese were able to do some nice replicas. sherry brener has/had a couple blancas that were nice ramirez clones. he was trying to pawn them off as made by an apprentice of ramirez. funny thing, senor ramirez never mentioned having a japanese apprentice unless he had one tucked away in the basement.

a barbero as wall art? the horror!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2012 10:06:08

Gregr

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 21 2012

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to keith)

Well, my friend, from whose widow I received the guitar, had it for 30 years or so. I'll have to speak to here more about it's origins to them.
Seems when you hold up a simple clay cup, folks won't believe it's the Holy Grail. They want gold.
I'f it's not a Barbero, it will make a great foggy night beach guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2012 14:02:57

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Gregr--having played a Barbero I can tell you that if the guitar is playable you will want to play it and not hang it on the wall. I hope your guitar is the real deal. As other posters mentioned in the other thread you have going, get photos to someone like Aaron Green or Richard Brune so they can evaluate the guitar and proceed based on their judgement. We would like a peek as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2012 14:18:52

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

quote:

It's hard to replicate the wonderful lightness of a real Flamenco instrument.
It's also hard to fake the patina this guitar has.

If it's real, you do not want to replace the top. RE Brune would be the guy to talk to. He once told me that refinishing a guitar like this would ruin it's value so don't touch it unless there are some structural repairs to be made.

It's not very hard at all to replica the lightness of a real flamenco nor is it hard to replicate an aged patina. There are some very good "fakes" out there. Not saying yours is a fake. Send some pictures to Brune and get his opinion.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2012 17:11:12

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

The address on the heel stamp might give you some clues.

The dates for Marcelo Barbero are 1904 to 1956 – a short life.

On the death of Santos Hernandez in 1943 Marcelo made guitars for Santos’ widow for a couple of years. These guitars were labelled “Viuda de Santos Hernandez, Constructor Marcelo Barbero, Madrid Aduana 23”. The heel stamps had the Aduana address.

From 1945 onwards Marcelo was turning out guitars with his own label and the address on these is Ministriles 6.

On Barabero's death Archangel Fernandez made a few guitars for Mhis widow with the label “Vda de Marcelo Barbero, Constructor Archangel Fernandez, Ministriles 6”.

Marcelo’s son apprenticed to Arcangel Fernandez and his early guitars were labelled “Construido por Marcelo Barbero Hijo para Casa Arcanagel Fernanzez, Jesus y Maria 26.” Marcelo Barbero Hijo continued to work for Arcangel and eventually had his own label.

Sherry Brenner imported Japanese guitars in the USA in the 60s and 70s and put the name “Marcelino Barbero, Madrid” on the label – nothing whatsoever to do with Marcelo or his family.

There are several people on the forum that might be able to help you identify your guitar if you could provide some more information and detailed photos.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2012 21:55:22

Gregr

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 21 2012

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to RobJe)

The heel stamp is that of the Ministiles 6 Madrid. I didn't realize there was suppose to be a paper label until it was noted looking at the internet pics.
If it's any help the neck has a worn finish from someones hand and the fret board has wear from use.
As for being left in the rain, a lot of folks don't really realize what they have and do not have the same level of concern that an aficionado might. Bill was also 70 some years old and dying from cancer. Getting distracted was an everyday thing.
No matter, I need to work on the pics for better evaluation.
Thanks for your concern so far.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2012 15:46:39

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Take a few shots of the headstock, the heel stamp and the rosette. Those things will be important.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2012 17:32:47

Gregr

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 21 2012

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Well, I just got back from the Guitar salon in Santa Monica and the associate confirmed he felt the guitar is a Barbero. That 's the good news. The bad news is that he felt it was in the worse shape he'd ever seen one. He suggested a really reputable luthier or repair shop would be very reluctant to attempt repairs.
He did give a name of a fellow that might work on the guitar as a challenge.
So I'm back to finding a shop that can do more good than harm in stabilizing the instrument so I can have an occasional player...that just happens to be a guitar that is no longer worth the really big bucks a clean Barbero can bring.
It's like having a piece of Lilaque glass with a big chip in it. Almost beautiful but of little value. Dang the bad luck!
Oh, and I haven't figured how to get pics out of my phone yet either!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 9 2012 20:56:13

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Hey try contacting Aaron Green and see what he thinks. He's a Barbero guy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 9 2012 20:58:26

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 19:16:20

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

I'm dying to see photos of this wrecked Barbero.

Why don't you post some photos?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 19:18:25

Gregr

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 21 2012

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to estebanana)

Banana man, I can't get my phone or camera pics to the computer use to lack of technical ability. May friend couldn't either. I ain't paying for IT in the home. Dang, huh?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 18:08:45

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Barbero guitars (in reply to Gregr)

Could be a bit too finicky over wireless connection.
However, your phone or camera will likely feature a bracket for a ( usually white, grey or black) cable that has a common USB connector on one end.

When you insert that end into your computer the contents of phone / camera will likely be detected plug&play all by itself; either showing in a pop up window, or visible through your windows explorer ( or whatever MAC or Win8 hold available now for to look at your computers partitions and files ).

Alternatively, any kid from your neighbourhood will probably get you up and running within not time.
When at that have it resize your photos to practical dimension ( below 200 KB ) before an upload to the forum.

Hope that helps.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 9:57:19