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How long did you take lessons for?
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xirdneH_imiJ
Posts: 1896
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
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RE: How long did you take lessons for? (in reply to golpeador)
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i never have, and i have the foro and its members to thank for much of my progress... having a teacher is definitely beneficial for many reasons...i on the other hand chose to invest in books and individual tabs, a good guitar, and spent much time reading the foro and watching videos...indeed, ive made some typical technical mistakes, developed habits that i had to unlearn (and some i still have), but i wouldnt trade it for anything, it has been a very worthy journey... surely if you choose someone to guide you, as long as it's not too much of a strain financially, you can study with them until you become better, more knowledgable...that may take many years :)
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Date Sep. 12 2012 23:38:29
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Jw
Posts: 112
Joined: Mar. 27 2011
From: Finland
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RE: How long did you take lessons for? (in reply to golpeador)
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Ciao! I had to answer to this question. I've been playing since I was 4 year old. Allways have had a teacher until year 2008 (24 years with teacher) when I finished my musical studies in Polytechnics. The question is simple. the GOOD Teacher is always better than without. The reason is not the material in the web or printed scores, but the reason is that you have a "mirror" who knows your problems, skills, abilities etc. and can give you tips what you should improve. The teacher can also tell you a million things what you don't even know exists and that's why you can try to find the via web. The people in the Foro are "like a teacher", them are your mirror, but it's not a bad thing to have one more in REAL life. Also the good teacher can arrange you concerts and possibilities to make musical exams. If you want to. The teacher can also tell you a lot about musical theory, harmony, scales etc. much easier than trying to find them by yourself. Of course it's possible to become a good player by studying yourself but I think it's much more painfull and longer way. This is a question what people everytime discuss, and usually it goes everytime like this: people without a good teacher tells you that you don't need any. People with good teacher tells you that you can't manage without. But I prefer the teacher. I put it this way: How many professional, educated musicians you know without a teachers??? None. It's totally different thing to come into the spotlight with a band or by your own music as an artist, but I'm now talking about a systematic musical studies. But as I mentioned before, it's still possible but I don't recommend.
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Jw - Guitarra flamenca - Helsinki
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Date Sep. 13 2012 11:10:10
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Ricardo
Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: How long did you take lessons for? (in reply to golpeador)
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Depends on the type of student you are. If you are the type that alots a specific time to practice, such as the night before the next class...or use actual class time to practice in front of teacher...then you need those 1hr a week lessons FOREVER!!!!!! But if you are the type of student that has no schedule but simply loves playing at every convenient moment, and come to class with previous weeks material mastered, then it's time to cut back frequency. BUT in exchange, you need to work it out to have a much LONGER lesson with the teacher. I mean have 2 hrs sessions once a month or so, and pay more for them too. That way you have both time in lessons to review and learn new stuff as your body of material grows and grows. I had a student that was quite advanced. he pretty much mastered EVERYTHING I played....IN THE PREVIOUS WEEKS LESSON. Now I bold that statement because one day, instead of new material I decided to have a comprehensive review of all the stuff we had done that year and before....and he had NOTHING RETAINED. I mean ZERO. Only thing he had memorized and played perfect was what he had been working on LAST WEEK!!!! It was shocking to me as a teacher, but such is danger of the weekly thing as you advance because I as the teacher didn't have time to review EVERYTHING in an hour AND add new material that he was totally capable of handling. So I recommend as students advance to have longer and more intense session, but spaced out more than in the early stage where corrections need to be made each week. ABout being a good teacher, my dad used to say his job as a teacher was to LOSE HIS JOB....that means to transfer all important info to the student so that his advice is no longer needed. Of course there will always be beginners. When students are ready I personally pass them on to playing for dance classes and such so they can work on their own, but remain availble for "yearly check ups" and such. Honestly the vast majority of my students are still in basic training. Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Sep. 13 2012 13:55:34
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Erik van Goch
Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands
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RE: How long did you take lessons for? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo ABout being a good teacher, my dad used to say his job as a teacher was to LOSE HIS JOB....that means to transfer all important info to the student so that his advice is no longer needed. Ricardo I totally agree with Ricardo's comments and the philosophy of his father is shared by both me and my father. When my father entered university of music in the 60ties as a student of classical guitar his teacher told him "what makes you so special is that i only have to tell/show you things once"! And there was lots to tell since my father never received any lessons before. He had learned himself to play from a book and despite being a very successful performer for over 10 years he basically had to start all over again. But being an excellent student he graduated cum laude within 4 years and became the main teacher of classical guitar there himself for over 40 years. Over the years he found out that most students indeed have to be told the same story over and over and over again. One of those students happened to be me (when i entered Paco Peñas University school off flamenco in 1985 were my father was one of the main instructors as well). Unlike my father i was very lazy, i hardly bothered to study at all and it took me 8 years before i was ready to do final exam.... the solo part i could have done in 4-5 years, but the additional requirement i had to be able to accompany singing and dancing "on the spot" took me another 3 years of strugling. The first time i really spent some quality time behind my guitar i managed to reach a "i need no lessons anymore level" within 4 weeks, but before it came to that i already had received 4 years of high level lessons from my father so in all fairness you could say in my case it took me 4 year to become "independent". As a teacher i try to make my students independent as well by showing them the mechanisms behind left/right hand techniques, the structure behind the music and on top the art of studying. Quite often a student would ask me to have another look at the falseta of the last lesson again because back home they had became completely lost in al the notes. With longterm (advanced) students i would simply reply with a "how do you think i would deal with that problem"? Then they quite often could demonstrate me al the steps i would take, starting with a few carefully selected notes, step by step adding additional notes and layers without loosing the initial feeling of playing just a couple of important notes wile adding the sub-layers in between. Within minutes they could re-play the falseta just by themself and all i said in between was "ok, what's the next step". After a couple of lessons like that i would frankly asked them " why do you still come to me every 1,2,3 or 4 weeks, only to hear me say <what's next>???? You can ask yourself that question back home as well, you don't need me anymore, go home and safe your money for concerts, cd's or a teacher that can learn you different things. That's how i look on it. But like i said, lot's of students somehow need to hear the same thing over and over again. Some teachers even exploit that and let you pay for learning the same bloody falseta over and over again. Unlike some of them i always give the material of the lesson in written music as well, covering al the notes and every little fines in rhythm, interpretation and left/right hand fingering one can think of. All i can offer are good examples in order to try to replace bad habits by better habits and my main coal is always to make them independent on the long turn. For the complete story i should add that i received guitar lessons from my father between the age of 9-12 as well. When i became handy enough to find my way on the guitar i soon quite taking lessons. Between 14 and 18 i studied the music of Paco Peña and Paco de Lucia. I was pretty good in ear playing melody/harmony but far less talented in rhythm and technique. Between 18 and 22 i abandoned flamenco and focused my attention on the group flairck, adapting various other instruments like 12 string guitar, bouzouki, citar, banjo and violin. When Paco and my father joined hands and started the very first university flamenco school ever i decided to get myself a proper guitar education after all. Just like my father 20 years before i basically had to start all over again. So did my father (once again) who had to learn Paco's flamenco technique and music first hand himself before passing it to us...he proved to be an excellent student/teacher in that field as well.
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Date Sep. 13 2012 17:02:29
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Mark2
Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: How long did you take lessons for? (in reply to golpeador)
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I've taken a lot of lessons, went to school to study music, etc. Lessons help, but focused practice of what you want to learn is what really does it, IMO. I think music really didn't come naturally to me though, and lessons really helped. First lessons-1975 basic chords and blues scales, then chord construction, other scales and application, intro to jazz standards Pro jazz teacher-chord melody construction, improv using altered scales, chord substitution, reading, jazz standards College-theory, jazz band, piano specialist-Bruce Conte from Tower of Power-bring on the funk flamenco-four years with Mariano Cordoba-all his solos, all the palos Four years in a dance school-get all the little dance thingys-get the compas wired Workshops /lessons with visting pros Jason came to town-opened my eyes into modern style-didn't take me long to figure out if I wanted to play his stuff, it meant a lot of hours. My mind was wanting to modernize, but my fingers were still in the 50's Pepe came from madrid for a year or so -finally figured out how to play some paco stuff-go slooooow to go fast I was doing a gig with a guy who had a lot of flamenco experience and told him I was struggling with playing for cante por bulerias. I told him I just couldn't seem to get a handle on it. He told me I was so close if I went to Spain and was with the right people for a weekend it would come together. Perhaps it would have taken me longer than that :-) But I got the point-the quality of the people you are with can make a huge difference. After all that if you don't play all the time, you aren't going to be good. I don't play all the time. I finally figured out that theres a lot of guys out there that love it a lot more than me.
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Date Sep. 13 2012 20:48:39
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FlamencoD
Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR
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RE: How long did you take lessons for? (in reply to golpeador)
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I took four 1 hour lessons per month for 17 months, then my wife and I had a baby in June and I took a 3 month break from lessons. I took a lesson in Sept. after that 3 month break (but maintained practicing over an hour per day during that time), and in that lesson my instructor was able to point out things to me that I was doing slightly wrong, or little things to remember to keep working on. However, I now feel I'm at the point where I will do one 2 hour lesson per month. I am able to work through flamenco guitar tab/music on my own and learn it (at least I think so). At each lesson we'll review the previous month's work, and start a new piece for me to take home and learn. Also, I review almost all of the past material I've learned on a weekly basis, or more frequently, if able. Before our baby was born I was practicing over 1.5 hours per day - what great progress can be made spending that much time every day! Now I'm getting around 70 mins per day, on average, which is still pretty good for a new Dad with a full time day job.
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Date Oct. 6 2012 5:01:39
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