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Is it worthwhile trying? If so what are some methods to do so? do singer and palma tracks exist to palos which are usually accompanied by guitar, for this purpose?
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to tburke)
Well I'd say it is worthwile trying as playing along with solo cante tracks is a lot of fun. Nevertheless you will suck as an accompanist when you try it with a singer for the first time - no matter how many recordings you have studied. One of the reasons is that most of the singers out there just don't hit the notes (especially when they are drunk) whereas you will be used to the perfect singing of Camarón, Terremoto, Macanita etc. as you know it from recordings...
There is a whole thread with solo cante files in our upload section.
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to tburke)
Of course it's worthwhile. Lots of people do it, inside and outside of Spain, with or without a guitar track in the mix.
If your goal is to learn to accompany, I'd say do it a lot and become familiar with letras (lyrics) in Spanish. You'll notice that different artists often use the same letras and that some letras are used in different styles.
quote:
...whereas you will be used to the perfect singing of Camarón, Terremoto, Macanita etc. as you know it from recordings...
This brings up another idea that fits well with my suggestion of learning letras: If you choose high-quality material, it's not too hard to be familiar with the same recordings that a singer will have in his/her head. Most of the better singers will often sing the cantes of their favorite arists that they've heard on old recordings.
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to tburke)
Nothing beats working with a live singer...unless the singer is limited of course. Playing for dance classes help get structure and compas, but ideally you will not only work with a complete cantaor at some point and learn how to follow, not just map out chord progressions, and also beable to take what you learn from one maestro and apply to OTHER good singers to ge a more complete picture. I will admit two ways singers work, the "payo" way where you actually do need to map out a little and give the singer specific tonos not just follow, and the "gitano" way were you are literally lead around the finger board by clearly timed vocal cues and need almost no pre concieved blue print other than compas. I put those in " " because I don't mean it in a racial way, but more stylistic generalization from my experience.
Now you say this is not gonna be a possibilty at all in the future than I am sad to say you will not ever learn and further, its ok cuz you won't need to. But if your hope is to be a little more prepared before you get with a live singer, well we have a 22 page thread dedicated to playing for pre recorded singing with no guitar. Take time to look through this and try some of the examples yourself, and don't be afraid to upload your version to get feedback on it. http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=124692&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to Ricardo)
yes it is defenetly worth it...even if u live in spain, if u get a singer to practice with you will get maybe 3 chances on everything most of the time...you will be expected to know the basics, the correct phrasing, strumming and of course the chords
( all tho that's what the rehearsal is for to make sure u have the correct chords to what hes doing...he could for example do a traditional letra that everyone sings different and he might stretch certain parts or shorten them and even tho one has heard that letra a million times the chords might fall in a different spot ) ...no singer will wait patiently by as you learn completely to accompany with him from the start unless you are really really REALLY lucky...and i have never had that...i got 3 tries if it didn't work...i recorded it and worked on it on my own time at home...we moved on to the next bit
that's why its good to be as prepared as possible with some idea before you go in...and that's where any help u can get...anything u can use ...will help you when it counts
that cante thread if studied can help someone obtain some initial basic understanding on accompanying cante and give him a good start on things...i think one can never be too prepared for cante, it is again different to accomp dancers or solo...and its not just about having the correct chords...the strumming and phrasing are just as important...and there arent many books on it..the step by step strumming, phrasing...how and where...so listening, figuring out and copying is a huge part
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to Florian)
Regarding cante on bulerias, I always get lost :/
Ive been practicing mentally by listening. At the begining of the song it is relatively easy to say "here's beat 3, here's 10" and thats where the chord changes (at least most of the times). When the playing gets a bit more spacey for the singer to come in, it sounds like the chords go for much longer but I dont know exactly how much they should go and I feel that the chord should change at least at 2 spots before it actually changes lol
Any help (a link perhaps) to some chart or clarification on where the chords should change?
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
il have all look through our the cante thread, i think theres an estrella morente bulerias that's quite spacy...that's where practicing the strumming can help...the correct strumming can help you land and change exactly where u need too..
i dont think we have a chart of the chords changes and it wouldn't help as again someone else might do it differently...but you can train yourself to hear those changes for yourself...so much of cante accompany relies on your ability to pick up the changes yourself...and you will....just a matter of a lot of copying until you do...
meanwhile il see if i can find that bulerias i mentioned and see if we can disect it
btw...feel free to post an audio of the type of letra you refer too also
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to tburke)
I know nothing about letras, maybe thats the key to the riddle lol
I enjoy the singing from a listeners standpoint but I feel dumb even as a listener for not knowing exactly where the chord should change. I know what chord is coming but I always feel that it should change earlier than it really does.
Its like playing El Pele's "Como quieres que te quiera"... very simple chords but a pain in the butt to have a feel for where they change lol
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
quote:
I know nothing about letras, maybe thats the key to the riddle lol
I enjoy the singing from a listeners standpoint but I feel dumb even as a listener for not knowing exactly where the chord should change. I know what chord is coming but I always feel that it should change earlier than it really does.
Its like playing El Pele's "Como quieres que te quiera"... very simple chords but a pain in the butt to have a feel for where they change lol
its like anything else...if you never studied it you wont know it...but if u start looking at it, you will slowly learn it
if you are interested in it, go in, disect it, transcribe the chords and the strumming...slow it down and work out small parts at the time, soon you will hear recurring patterns etc..
the hardest thing is the starting and knowing which is the first step to take..
pick one audio focus on a a small section ...and transcribe the guitar as you would any falseta you like, get as many details as possible...the chords, where...the strumming etc..do you know the typical bulerias por medio accompanying chords ? 99% of the time it will be one of the 7 or 8 chords it can be, as u learn more that gets narrowed down...if you know which they are...cuts down your guessing time..
try it, have a go, make a audio of it, upload it on the cante thread...if you make a mistake, (you probably will, we all do) we will try to help and correct it...taking that first step is the hardest...after that , everything kind of slowly starts falling into its own place..
weather you get a singer to practice with or not, you will need to do this things before it and understand certain parts on your own
or another approach...any of the cante tracks without guitar on that thread also have a version someone did with guitar...download both versions....the chords, key and strumming are already worked out for you...transcribe and copy that
RE: Best ways to practice accompanyi... (in reply to Florian)
Thanks man. Usually I dont have problems with the harmony and Ive already noticed some singing patterns where in a given melody a guitarist might go one way chordwise but another might go another way. Both ways are good but have a different feel. I know it happens more often in bulerias and Ive heard Tomatito doing that with Camaron but I cant exactly tell you what it is that Iam talking about lol
That thread sounds like fun, going to check that tommorrow.
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