RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON SOUNDBOARD WHEN PLAYING WITH THE THUMB

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON SOUN...

I've developed a habit recently... I'm not sure if its good or bad. I think I picked it up by watching heavy metal guitar tuition videos. there's this guy, Michael Angelo Batio (apparently the fastest electric guitarist in the world). when he plays (using a plectrum), he rests the tips of the middle finger (M) and ring finger (A) on the front of the guitar for added support. I've started doing the same during pulgar work, resting them just below the soundhole. Is this right or wrong? Obviously I don't do it when I use picado, just pulgar. But I find it gives me some leverage that I don't get without resting them there.

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 25 2005 20:15:02

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

i just love his beavis and butthead attitude

I hope he does it for a laugh..otherwise im getting scared

I wouldn´t rest my hand but if it works it works..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 25 2005 20:17:48

de Almeida

Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 8 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I don't see how you could rest your fingers while playing with the thumb, if you are doing the correct movement. The wrist is heavily involved in the movement of the thumb, and if you are able to rest your fingers on the soundboard the whole time, I'm going to bet that the sound is very weak.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2005 3:20:05

Guest

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

It's wrong IMHO

It makes it impossible to play with the wrist.

Get Gerardo Nuñez Encuentro DVD and see how its done

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2005 8:46:39

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to Guest)

Thanks everyone,
maybe not the best idea after all. To be honest, my pulgar work is not as weak as you might think even with the other fingers resting on the soundboard. This is because I have made it a habit of using the bottom thumb joint to move the thumb, rather than the wrist, and so the movement comes naturally. I have quite an unusual thumb too, in that the joint lends itself well to this movement.
However, if my technique could be improved by doing pulgar work differently, I will certainly give it a try and perhaps use the wrist more. I will ask for that Gerardo Nunez DVD for my birthday and use it to improve.

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2005 12:11:46

de Almeida

Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 8 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

you will need to adjust your technique... you need to have the wrist doing the movement.. it's all linked together, alzapuas, rasgueados with the thumb, these use the same sort of wrist movement you should be using when you play just with the thumb. in fact the movement is actually a combination of movement of the wrist and thumb - a harmony really.. and it will take a long time to get it really good. flamenco is not something that can be learned just from the score of a solea. you have to watch people play it (preferably your teacher, but DVD's can be quite good).. you have to watch the movements over and over.. you will realize that the great sound that comes from the guitar is a result of the movement.. and movement of the wrist. it is one thing to be able to play through the score, but entirely another to play it very well! and watch and listen to different ways of playing. as many dvd's will show, there are so many different ways to play with the thumb, and the different guitarists who make the dvd's have different styles, different ways to accent, etc.. but they will all tell you: it's all in the wrist

you definitely need to pick up the gerardo nunez dvd+book. it will be the best $110 you ever spent. (at least on flamenco!)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2005 21:43:13

de Almeida

Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 8 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

oh, ALSO... how are you tapping efficiently if your fingers are resting on the soundboard??? all that pulgar and no golpe?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 26 2005 21:49:43

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to de Almeida)

quote:

you need to have the wrist doing the movement

de Almeida any thoughts on the wrist movement and finger work. For example playing pulgar on 3 to 6 and tremolo on 1. As I put in the wrist action I get a better rhythmic bass but the fingers, due to the wrist movement end up out of position. Any thoughts gratefully received

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2005 9:43:47

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

James;

Use what works. I know a few well known guitarists from Spain that use this technique. In fact I often use it as you described. It tends to give stability when you are doing passages with the pulgar. I find it is good when you want to be loud as when you are accompanying or want to emphasize your music.

Remember there is no one way to play any flamenco technique. Depending upon what you are trying to accomplish you should adjust your technique to accommodate the result you want.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2005 2:33:08

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I would just like to point out that at Guitar Fest '05 in Singapore, Oscar Herrero gave a brief lecture on flamenco techniques and he very clearly stated that resting on the fingerboard is always wrong.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 12:41:32

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Let me correct that. He said that resting on the scratch plate or any other part of the guitar while using the thumb stroke is wrong.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 12:42:40

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

There's more than one way to skin a furry feline....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 15:39:53

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to JBASHORUN)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 15:46:04

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf
I spoke with a fellow who studied under Manolo Sanlucar - and he said that when Manolo was teaching him Alzapua he said that it didn't matter if the fingers are on the soundboard as long as the player could extract the required "sound".

Quite. As Tom and mike say above - whatever works.

I rest some fingers (knuckles actually) on the soundboard when doing alzapua. If you are driving it from the thumb base joint as opposed to that wrist action referred to above, it doesn't matter.

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 15:58:21

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I have a tiny theory about that:
The sound board is for creating a good sound an important part of the guitar. It vibrates. And guitarconstructors have many ways to manipulate the sound by working on the backside of the soundboard with sticks and so on..I dont know to explain it.. When you rest your fingers on the board it could change the tone, or not? So its better to rest the fingers on the first string when you use the thumb. We have guitarmakes here in the forum, I would be happy to hear a comment from Anders about this.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2005 9:42:12

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

The sound board is for creating a good sound an important part of the guitar. It vibrates. And guitarconstructors have many ways to manipulate the sound by working on the backside of the soundboard with sticks and so on..I dont know to explain it..

Yes indeed... that is true. One of the first things I learned on my luthiery course is that the soundboard is the main producer of volume in the guitar. Antonio De Torres once made a guitar with a wooden soundboard and a back and sides made from paper mache, just to proove that it was infact the soundboard that was most important acoustically. The sticks are called "fan struts" on a classical guitar, and are fixed to the inside. Why the inside? that I can't say, as we have not yet been taught exactly HOW the fan struts improve volume and tonal response. But I'm guessing they angle the vibrations toward the soundhole. If this were the case, it would be interesting to see what acoustic effect (if any) a couple of fingers would have on the oustide of the soundboard. Perhaps nothing, but if anything they might absorb some of the vibration and make a slight reduction in sound. But who knows... as Doitsujin says, if anyone knows please tell us!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2005 14:53:07

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
If this were the case, it would be interesting to see what acoustic effect (if any) a couple of fingers would have on the oustide of the soundboard. Perhaps nothing, but if anything they might absorb some of the vibration and make a slight reduction in sound.

As much as, say, a large piece of plastic glued to the top of the guitar?

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2005 9:13:11

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

quote:

As much as, say, a large piece of plastic glued to the top of the guitar?

Ah yes, I had forgotten about golpeadores! In that case, the difference in sound is probably negligible. Unless plastic and flesh have dramatically different acoustic properties. But I would guess that the difference in sound would be so small that it doesn't matter, otherwise guitarists would tear off their goldpeadores.

As a quick test, I just plucked a note once with my fingers on the soundboard and once again without, and I certainly couldn't hear much difference!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2005 11:23:43

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: RESTING MIDDLE & RING FINGER ON ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

However, I have noticed that when I sit on my bed and rest the tip of the headstock of my guitar against the wall I distinctly different sound.

strange.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2005 8:29:48