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RE: will you consider gypsy kings a flamenco or fakemenco?!! tell us why?   You are logged in as Guest
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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to n85ae) 
quote:

n any case I find I really hate some "traditional" flamenco, which is to the
ears about like listening to Cats fighting,


wow that's naughty

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 13:44:24
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
Allright, darn it! I confess, some of the stuff I really hate. I even find I don't
like listening much to Sabicas, or Ramon Montoya ... Paco Pena does nothing
for me, nothing! I even paid good money to see his concert. Little guy with
a giant guitar is what I felt. Yeah he plays well, but I felt NOTHING listening
to it.

I like Chicuelo, I like Gerardo, I like Paco, Moraito, the list goes on ... I
like Estrelle Morente, but a lot of Cante .... Just hurts to hear it. Maybe
it's because I only understand English (ok American) ... But it is what
it is.

There's always lot's of "What's your favorite Flamenco Album"? Threads.
How about a new thread "Traditional Flamenco That REALLY Sucks"?


quote:

wow that's naughty
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:03:34
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to n85ae) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae
How about switch back to real discussions of Flamenco. You know "guitar
technique", etc????


Try to get outside your bedroom with your guitar and you will realize that Fakemenco is an issue to deal with in the "real" world.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:06:08
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
Wife forbids me from bringing the guitar in the bedroom,

quote:

Try to get outside your bedroom with your guitar and you will realize that Fakemenco is an issue to deal with in the "real" world.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:10:52
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to n85ae) 
Change wife.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:14:02
Guest

RE: will you condenser gypsy kings a... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

Benjamin Woods

Rico...
that video throws a bit of a spanner in the works...Metallanas?
neat find....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:18:00
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

Try to get outside your bedroom with your guitar and you will realize that Fakemenco is an issue to deal with in the "real" world


only if you chose to be the guy that is going to deal with it ...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:18:47
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
do you think, a guy like Jason would deal with such things if he had a choice???

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:21:06
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

do you think, a guy like Jason would deal with such things if he had a choice???


no someone put a gun to his head and took his choice away ...if Jason didnt want to deal with it he wouldn't have

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:22:35
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
Good idea, but she's paid for ...

quote:

Change wife.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:23:53
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
no need for weapons. Fakemenco is threat enough

quote:

if Jason didnt want to deal with it he wouldn't have


Yes. But Fakemenco is firstly a thing you are confronted with, if you WANT or NOT. You can choose to ignore it, if it does NOT bother you that so many people have a wrong image of flamenco, which in the end tells something about yourself...

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:24:43
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

no need for weapons. Fakemenco is threat enough


look at it this way...theres no good without bad, theres no light without dark and theres no happy without sad...

all fakemenco does is make flamenco deeper and more special

all this concern and fear of fakemenco is totally wasted energy and unnecessary imo...theres always been flamenco there will always be flamenco...there was always fakemenco and there will always be fakemenco

if you were to ban all the :fakemenco " groups now , you will just make it eazyer and open the market for the next ones...which might be even worst though lack of experience

personally id sooner listen to a creative, imaginative fakemenco whos good at what they do than a bad flamenco thats got no imagination

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:26:35
Guest

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

Fakemenco is threat enough

until that guy mixed sevillanas and metal....now the artists have tattoo's, piercings, pump iron, electric guitars and a vacant glazed stare...who's going to take them on?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:34:00
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

Yes. But Fakemenco is firstly a thing you are confronted with, if you WANT or NOT. You can choose to ignore it, if it does NOT bother you that so many people have a wrong image of flamenco, which in the end tells something about yourself...


yeah it tells that i am not here to teach people about music and genres and especially not force it down they throats what flamenco is..( if anybody seriously wanted to find out it would take 2 seconds in Google) ...i am here to proudly play some of what i love (if they ask me what it is il tell em flamenco) and hopefully entertain them for a few minutes......that's all ...just to do what i love..

80% of us would not be here now doing flamenco if it wasn't for fakemenco, fakemenco is not the problem...is the individual ...weather he chooses to look deeper or not...as most of us who have come to flamenco by the way of fakemenco...u cant fight peoples ignorance on things that dont interest them...90% of people i meet in Australia still think everyone in Romania are gypsies and thats where they come from cause "romani" sounds like Romania

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:37:15
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
YOU can find out if something is flamenco in 2 seconds. Normal people can NOT tell it that fast, if they can tell it at all.
You can do what you want, but that doesnt say anything about the subject. I wont comment on that further. Its simply not flamenco, and mentioning that is absolutely OK. Everything else just maintains ill knowledge in the world, which is something i will definitely NOT be up to.

quote:

u cant fight peoples ignorance on things that dont interest them


Aha! Glad you said it, because its the most important point. You can not blame them for not being interested in flamenco, true. But they dont even know what it is? They simply dont have CHOSEN to DISLIKE flamenco (that would be "ok"), they are just CONFUSING it with something else. Its just an error, a misunderstanding. Correcting this is just a matter of humanity, you dont even have to be a fan of flamenco.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:54:10
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

Everything else just maintains ill knowledge in the world, which is something i will definitely NOT be up to.


alright bro ...well you fight em ...come back here in a year let me know how it went

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:56:28
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

quote:

Everything else just maintains ill knowledge in the world, which is something i will definitely NOT be up to.


alright bro ...well you fight em ...come back here in a year let me know how it went


What fight? What are you talking about?
This My Last post.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 14:57:43
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

What fight? What are you talking about?



"fight" "argue your point" however you plan on curing this world epidemic


quote:

Correcting this is just a matter of humanity, you dont even have to be a fan of flamenco.


If its asked of me i will, if i am asked what flamenco is i will...if there is a natural place to correct i will, but i wont be coming off like a tosser for the sake of being right when noone asked me what flamenco is ..


For example...Someone comes to me and says

" I really LOVE otmar Libert's album !!"

i am not gonna say ..

" - its not flamenco you know "..or, " you shouldn't like it cause its not real flamenco?"

or "dont listen to the cd you love cause its just a copy of flamenco "

its just stupid...and guess who is the one that's going to look like a tosser after...and guess what my chances are of this guy coming to my next gig are...i mean if they were bad before they pretty non existent now..




this might not be my last post cause theres nothing else happening atm...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 15:01:23
 
elroby

 

Posts: 142
Joined: Mar. 25 2007
 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 15:45:24
 
Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
I wouldnt call the Gipsy Kings fakemenco. The thing is, they mostly focus on Rumba- just one of the 50 or so palos. I've heard that very early on they played more variety, but they liked seeing the girls get up and dance during the Rumbas. They decided to play more and more Rumbas.

In response to someone saying they love Ottmar or someone like that, If they prompt me for a comment Id respond by saying that I prefer flamenco that fits the more traditional structure for the sake of a singer or dancer. Id avoid throwing around flamenco terminology, since that type of person may not understand.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 16:06:28

FredSanford

Posts: 87
Joined: Sep. 13 2011
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to elroby) 
quote:

'that guy' can play some kick ass flamenco, I know cause I've played with him, he just decided to do something else with his life.


slurp slurp

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 16:54:51
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
I dont even know if 'FAkemenco' as you call it exsits ,
Rumba is a valid palo and they play it , they do very well with it , .. I think saying this is fake and this is not is very pretentious and is merely a point of view , you can call any type of music anything you want , but this doesn't change anything , or any music ,
I would suspect if given a time machine and you went back to the 20's or before with Paco de lucia stuff , maybe people would say, very good, but it's not flamenco , notice I said "maybe" attitudes change with time , flamenco today is only what it is because of previous mixtures , it' s history is still developing ,
Bottom line , you get a guitar and you play anything, you want , anything , it's your guitar , your choice , call the music anything you want , remember the people who play it don't call it "'fakemenco ' that seems to be something developed here,
I say go ahead develop something , maybe it's good maybe its a waste of time , its up to the individual , I wouldn't be so narrow- minded, stubborn or unpersuedable as to suggest that fakemenco ,as it is know here, is any less valid than any other type of music,
Ben woods mixed sevillanas with metal , I really like it , I actually learned most of the first two bits anyway , It's fun and thats another thing music should be , fun to play and enjoyable
Flamenco has always been , in Spain, the music of the people , what the people learn , play and pass on to others ,

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 17:10:48
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Florian) 
[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 17:17:48
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
and guess what my chances are of this guy coming to my next gig are...i mean if they were bad before they pretty non existent now..


Try this to raise the number of your (fakemenco) audiences



I can also help you out with some other stuff if you want. Let me know.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 17:24:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
I should have gotten an Ole' for bringing up Liberace.....

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 17:25:03
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to El Kiko) 
[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 17:29:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
In Rito y Geografia (filmed 1971-73), many of the old singers (and Melchor too) are interviewed and express a concern about the "modern" trend at the time of Rumba being sung so much. Most admit it is "pretty" singing but it is not "puro", or at least they fear the deeper songs were getting lost. I would say, based on what is most popular nowadays it is sort of true. Couple of other interesting things in Rito, for example El Pali who just sings Sevillanas and Fandango de Huelva admited that he considered what he did as "cante" just as deep and serious as other flamenco singers. And went on to say there was once a flamenco festival and people were getting bored of Solea and Siguiriya so they had to call HIM to come sing his Sevillanas to keep people in the place.

So on one hand "fakemenco" has always been a problem as Florian says. Now I personally feel that the true ambassador of flamenco is not rumba or fakemenco guitar or whatever you want to call it...it is DANCING. So here is google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Flamenco&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

No fakemenco stuff on page one, so lets not fear so much about it taking over popularity wise (although there is the Ravi Shankar Flamenco fusion thing). Next Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Flamenco&oq=Flamenco&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=638637l639783l0l643639l8l6l0l0l0l0l185l748l2.4l6l0

Only thing not flamenco on there is the "tango-flamenco" music, yet it has a montage of images of flamenco dance.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 18:50:19

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

I would consider a comment like that simply based on ignorance


Enjoying an Ottmar Liebert album is not ignorant.

Promoting it as flamenco is ignorant.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 21:04:22
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: will you consider gypsy kings a ... (in reply to Florian) 
Personally I find the "what is and what is not flamenco" conversations tedious and exceedingly boring.

They are all subjective. And it never proves anything and then the conversation comes up again in six months. Sometimes I feel as if the ones who want to argue against this or that just have a mild case of the 'White Man's Burden' around music issues and should be basically ignored. Google the term if you don't know it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 23:07:23
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: will you condenser gypsy kings a... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

You also have people that only interpret fandangos, or sevillanas which are song forms closely related to flamenco, but not necessarily enough to define an artist as a "flamenco".


Wait, I thought fandangos was one of the "official" palos of flamenco. If someone only played bulerias, would he not count as a flamenco guitarist? Or did you mean to make a different point?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2011 23:08:08
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