Attention professional Luthiers in the US - Info on Gibson raid and Chuck Erikson on Lacey Act

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estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

Attention professional Luthiers in t...

You can read Chuck Erikson's analysis of the current CITES/ Lacey Act revisions vis a vis U.S.Fish and Game raid on Gibson and subsequent seizure of materials and guitars. This is really important.

Posts 21 and 22 Chuck Erikson gives analysis on Lacey Act:

http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?50@217.wcckalqaJma.9@.2cb70819/0

" Even though the U.S. instrument industry accounts for but 1% of wood use here, they seem to be getting disproportionately targeted no matter how much such harassment might endanger the industry’s survival or how many jobs could be lost."
~Chuck Erikson~

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2011 19:53:56

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

Yeah, it’s getting really ugly. There is a bunch of info at the Acoustic Guitar site:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=011342

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2011 21:38:07

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to Patrick)

What's ugly is that that several of the posters on Acoustic Guitar forum have come to wrong conclusions about the matter. They've posted without reading was actually happening.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2011 22:02:49

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

What's ugly is that that several of the posters on Acoustic Guitar forum have come to wrong conclusions about the matter. They've posted without reading was actually happening.

But there are additional links to the facts on that thread.

Big brother is alive and well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2011 22:27:26

Michael1917

Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

There is also a strong political angle to the story. The CEO of Gibson Guitars is a donor to Republican candidates. MArtin guitars' CEO, however, is a donor to Democrats and Martin uses the same woods. http://landmarkreport.com/andrew/2011/08/ceo-of-gibson-guitar-a-republican-donor/

It’s worth pointing out that Henry E. Juszkiewicz, Gibson’s Chief Executive Officer, is a donor to a couple of Republican politicians. According to the Open Secrets database, Juszkiewicz donated $2000 to Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN07) last year, as well as $1500 to Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN). Juszkiewicz also has donated $10,000 to the Consumer Electronics Association, a PAC that contributed $92.5k to Republican candidates last year, as opposed to $72k to Democrats. (The CEA did, however, contribute more to Democrats in the 2008 election cycle.)
One of Gibson’s leading competitors is C.F. Martin & Company. The C.E.O., Chris Martin IV, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the DNC over the past couple of election cycles. According to C.F. Martin’s catalog, several of their guitars contain “East Indian Rosewood.” In case you were wondering, that is the exact same wood in at least ten of Gibson’s guitars.

The Gibson facility wasn’t raided over allegations of tax evasion, charges of embezzlement, or even something as drab as child labor. Not even close. It was raided over what the DOJ deems an inability to follow a vague domestic trade law in India (one that apparently the Indian government didn’t seem too concerned about enforcing) regarding a specific type of wood. Not illegal wood, just wood with obscenely specific procedural guidelines.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2011 22:52:22

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

My level of udnerstanding english ist good enough to realy understand whats going on: is this about the whole madagascar rosewood illegaly imported from germany thing??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2011 23:48:06

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

This is not political, it's about interpretation of the Lacey Act by U.S. Fish and Wild life.

It potentially threatens large and small luthiers alike. Please don't make it about partisan political finger wagging. I'm just trying to get word out to luthiers and customers to create an awareness so folks can write to their reps and try to get Fish and Wildlife to more carefully moderate how they carry out enforcing the law.

This also potentially effects anyone traveling with or mailing a guitar. It's bigger than partisan bickering and picking on one company. Martin guitar Co. has had it's guitars confiscated too when they send them back to customers after doing warranty work.

This means if you travel with a guitar and Fish and Wildlife asks, you have to provide documentation on your instruments materials. Even with documentation you can still have trouble.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 2:06:41

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

I believe I posted a related article before. Let's combine these threads

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 2:45:46

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to Harry)

Sorry I did not see your post on this Harry. That is the article that everyone is looking at, I encourage you to read Chuck Erikson's take on the situation. He is a well known mother of pearl supplier for many companies and independent luthiers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 2:52:27

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

Additional info from Gibson's CEO

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 5:24:39

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

And more

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 5:30:01

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

i do not put anything past obama's people and politicizing raids. they have shown all too many times either a disregard for fairness and/or thinking before acting. the list is so long of things obama has turned political when in fact nothing political was involved--just ask the cambridge massachusetts police. of course maybe obama was too busy trying to sweep uncle omar and aunt zeituni under the rug to pay attention to the gibson raid.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2011 15:35:32

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

The real problem is if they pick you you're guilty, after they strip you of your property and income you can choose to spend a small fortune on lawyers plus a few years of your time trying to prove otherwise. What the hell did they need a swat team with automatic weapons for, Gibson is hardly a dangerous drug cartel.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2011 16:42:21

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

Thats just nuts! I know about the rule for exporting IRW and having indian labour involved. I had a huge lump of IRW that was shaped as a bed post that I resaw into bindings and some bridges. It's crazy in a way because I could have got so much more out of the lump had the work not been undertaken! I don't knwo the political ins and outs but I do hope we dont get anything like that over here!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2011 19:36:13

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

Another article in the Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542942027859286.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2011 22:25:09

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Attention professional Luthiers ... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?50@217.wcckalqaJma.9@.2cb70819/0

http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?50@217.wcckalqaJma.9@.2cb70819/0

Further information from Chuck Erikson: post #43- gets to the bottom of the issue.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 2 2011 16:40:45