some luthery

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some luthery

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estebanana

Posts: 9371
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

some luthery

New headstock design with a wash coat of finish on it. I forgot to show this before. So in the spirit of actually showing what we guitar makers are building these days.......

Thai Rosewood face veneer, Spanish Cedar neck, Sloane Tuners. The Thai rosewood is a lot like Cocobolo, although I have not been able to id the exact species.

What are the other makers working on these days? Throw it up here!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 0:15:45

estebanana

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RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

The back side.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 0:25:40

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Thai rosewood... sounds tasty.
I like the design, it's pretty unique.

Here's a cedar top blanca with "extra side purflings" in the finishing stages...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 2:55:49

estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Did you glue those sides together edge to edge or did you make a big glued up block and slice them off?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 3:00:28

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

nice work Stephen... is it me or did you instal the tuners the wrong way around??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 20:38:49

estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Oops, I just popped them in for the photo and to show the client. He dropped by the other day to see it. When I screw them in I'll switch them. But good eye.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 21:10:13

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Did you glue those sides together edge to edge or did you make a big glued up block and slice them off?

I glued them edge to edge with PU glue... I almost didn't expect them to bend well but they stayed together.

Very good eye Gimar

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 21:22:26

estebanana

Posts: 9371
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

More weird stuff:

I found this glued inside an Archangel Fernandez I had to fix recently.

It's a religious tract of some kind with picture of a priest and some writing in English. I just left it, it was not bothering anything. There was a lot of glue squeeze out between the glue blocks, and you can see how he used the strap under the bridge. It had fairly sizable fan braces. Wonderful sound. Lots of interesting things to see, his tail block grain runs vertical.

And it makes me wonder if there were some milled trim pieces available at a mill shop that were used to make glue blocks. The profile of the glue blocks are rounded and uniform as if thy had been made on a mill cutter and then sliced with a hand saw. Wouldn't have been clever a fast to find a pre milled piece of trim to make those blocks? Has anyone seen anything like this to compare? Aaron?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 23:35:28

estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Here's a shot of a fan and strap. At some point I'll borrow this guitar and measure it and take more interior pictures. Something about this one is fascinating. That pencil line is under the saddle. The whole strap is tapered down to nothing on both sides, it extends about 2 inches past the bridge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2011 23:44:13

JuanDaBomb

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RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Stephen. do you know what those little wooden nubs are, right there next to the fan brace in the fist pic?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 1:11:09

estebanana

Posts: 9371
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

quote:

Stephen. do you know what those little wooden nubs are, right there next to the fan brace in the fist pic?

Those are cleats from an old repair.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 1:24:05

Andy Culpepper

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From: NY, USA

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

wow. must be awesome to be "lifting the skirt" of that Arcangel.
One time I found half of a dollar bill stuck inside a guitar in about that same spot.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 3:18:20

estebanana

Posts: 9371
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

*creepy* Andy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 3:30:33

Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks for the photos, Stephen. Its a bit unclear from the photo...is the bridge strap continuous or interrupted? It would seem that fitting those fans cleanly over a rounded-to-nothing strap would be tough.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 4:04:00

estebanana

Posts: 9371
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Peter,

In the first photo you can see the strap moving off to the right and diminishing. The the strap is cut and the fans are set between the sections very tightly. I would have taken a picture of the braces, but the instrument has a huge white tap plate on it. If I get it back for A day of documentation I'll be ready with a different camera and I'll trace the brace layout.

Otherwise it's pretty much the "Reyes" style, that Reyes probably did not invent.

I think this goes back to Barbero, but I'm no expert because have not seen enough of them in person. If you know, for a reference we all have, that Barbero that R.E. Brune' drew and published in the Guild of American Luthiers this guitar looks like a direct descendant of that one. The fan layout, almost identical. And the ends of the transverse braces are the same height where they hit the ribs, etc. Many many things to see here. It's refreshing to get back to a primary source guitar which is this old and be able to study it.

It's Archangel #160-something from 1963.

One more detail on the fans, they were rounded over on the ends not scooped and tapered. On the rosette end the fans started to taper about 3/4" from end of the fan and then to about half the height of the fan. Then an abrupt round over. So instead of a scoop on the end they rounded over more like an airfoil shape. Same thing on the other end, but the taper started about 2" for the end of the brace. The rest of the brace was rounded over from a blank about a 1/4" square. There are five of them. They end somewhat short of the tail like the GAL Barbero, they are kept quite in inboard of the ends of the bridge are splayed out a bit. I think the round over is different from the Barbero.

You can see the taper treatment on the cut off fans quite well. Apologies for the bad pics.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 4:22:49

aarongreen

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Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Interesting conjecture on the tentellones. Very possible. I've seen a number of spanish guitars with rounded over glue blocks like that. I assumed they just made a long strip of it and cut them off. A belt sander would do that very quickly or you could make a holding jig and do it with a plane.

The vertical block is not all that uncommon although I think it's not a great idea. The theory is with the grain running vertically you would get some measure of protection if the guitar should be dropped or a crack was running through the sides. I don't like it as I don't like gluing the top to end grain, even though you can and should size the hell out of it. I restored an old Lopez where you could see a pucker in the top from the block expanding and contracting with years of changes in humidity etc..

The Barbero in question looks a lot like that one. I'll have to double check my records to see how he treated the ends of the braces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 12:51:12

jshelton5040

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Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

And it makes me wonder if there were some milled trim pieces available at a mill shop that were used to make glue blocks. The profile of the glue blocks are rounded and uniform as if thy had been made on a mill cutter and then sliced with a hand saw. Wouldn't have been clever a fast to find a pre milled piece of trim to make those blocks? Has anyone seen anything like this to compare? Aaron?

I rout an ogee profile in the tentallones before sawing them then round the edges to eliminate any roughness. No particular reason, I just like the way it looks. Vertical grain on the end block doesn't seem logical. I've never understood why makers use such enormous end blocks. It seems like overkill to me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 14:11:28

estebanana

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RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Violins use large vertical blocks, but of course the plate is thicker in that spot.

I've seen the same glue blocks in other Spanish guitars of that vintage, I think there was a standard sized mill trim used for something, like bordering plastered walls or trim around doors and they just bought it an used for blocks. It's inspiring me to change and make a bunch of this stuff on the router table. ( I know, a router)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2011 15:15:50

Stephen Eden

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RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

I've only ever used vertical grained end blocks and know for sure of 5 others that do to. never seen any of their older work look too bad. I know what you mean but I think it can happen to any guitar.

I would post some work but Havent really done anything visually different for a long time now.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2011 15:33:42

estebanana

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RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Maybe some of you smart guys can figure out how to play this:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 2:58:18

estebanana

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RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

I found a new wood to play with for bridge making. Jobillo or Goncalo Alves. It's lighter in weight than most other rosewood. It reminds me of Brazilian, looks like Brazilian sap wood. I said almost. It does have nice qualities, strength and lightness. it can have mild figure too. This one is roughed out and weighs 18 grams. I just finished one with saddle and tie block that weighs 18 grams after all the refinements are made.

Who else has been using alternative woods for bridges?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 3:05:16

jshelton5040

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RE: some luthery (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

I've only ever used vertical grained end blocks and know for sure of 5 others that do to.

I read vertical and thought quartered. Of course there's nothing wrong with using vertical grain as long as it's not quartered. In my opinion the grain on the end block should not be either parallel or perpendicular to the grain of the sides.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2011 14:21:56

ralexander

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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: some luthery (in reply to estebanana)

Goncalo Alves, interesting! I've only ever seen it used for backs and sides on acoustic steel string guitars. Interesting also to see a lighter colored bridge - I'm not sure I've ever seen one quite like this on a flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2011 18:17:38