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Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
I would be interested to read any stories from anyone who has played one of Marvi's Flamencos.
When i first heard Gerardo playing the guitar in the picture i was amazed by the sound as well. I assumed many flamencos would start playing them but that doesn't appear to be the case? Does the extra weight effect the playability in a big way? Are they difficult to play? What's the deal?
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to KMMI77)
I have played a Marvi negra it sounded very good in direct comparison to several well respected makers. It was loud, rich and powerful but not classical sounding. Basses were profound, deep but not muffled, trebles were full, clear, expressive; the balance between was very good.
It had real character it was a strong, macho sound and had that kind of built in 'reverb' resonance, overall a very musical guitar. I would say it sounded beautiful. It was one of those guitars that sounded flamenco very easily- didn't need much right hand.
I found the Marvi was comfortable to play for left and right hand, moderately stiff pulsation. The construction and wood was obviously top quality. The Marvi was double lined and the neck construction is special so there's more wood upto the soundhole; it wasn't a light guitar but not remarkably heavy. I didn't find the weight was a problem at all but having played guitars considerably varying in weight I don't find that weight makes any difference in playability to me personally.
Although an exceptional guitar it would not be my first choice. I imagine it would be good for recording, playing solo or playing at home but I prefer uglier, more dynamic sounding blancas, I personally prefer flat Condes which don't sound flamenco unless you make them!
Still the Marvi was great I don't know why they're not used more, maybe the price? Too full and not rough/cutting enough for accompaniment? (Or because as Doit suggests, the headstock is reminisent of the male genitalia?)
Maybe they are used for recording and we just don't know it? There are players that always perform with the same guitar but record with other makers too.
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
Thanks for the review Orsonw,
I think the one Gerardo plays in his video is outstanding and I wonder if Marvi can consistently deliver that sound?
It seems to have the quality to be able to push the note as far as you can without bottoming out, getting buzzy or losing the flamenco bite to the note. The clarity, separation and pulsation is quite extraordinary. I even prefer it to any Reyes or Conde I have heard. So much life in that guitar.
But still, I would like to play and hear it live with my own ears so i could actually make an informed judgement.
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to KMMI77)
quote:
I think the one Gerardo plays in his video is outstanding and I wonder if Marvi can consistently deliver that sound?
As far as one can tell from video the one I played was as good as Nunez' (I think the one I played was actually better), though only playing them side by side would reveal the truth. What one can't tell from a video is how loud a guitar is, the one I played was very loud and could be pushed hard.
From what I know of your playing and your current guitars Kris, I imagine a Marvi could suit you well.
Posts: 1812
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)
quote:
s an Andrés Marvi negra, which Gerardo decided not to use anymore because it was quite heavy
Weight is definitely a consideration. My former classical guitar teacher, Julian Byzantine, stopped using his Joaquín García double-back-and-sided guitar simply because it was too heavy to tour with.
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
The one I played was heavy but not terribly heavy. It was a pretty large guitar in general. It had a slightly raised fingerboard with neck wood running all the way to the soundhole and the soundboard set into that. I've played other negras that were heavier, Pedro de Miguel for example. The Marvi was pretty impressive volume-wise and had a very flamenco tone too. Overall very fun to play but a bit too brutal and overpowering for my taste.
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)
quote:
The Marvi was pretty impressive volume-wise and had a very flamenco tone too. Overall very fun to play but a bit too brutal and overpowering for my taste.
That's interesting. I don't find that the guitar comes across as overpowering in the Nunez video. I guess after hearing and playing one live i may feel differently. I get the feeling there is something different about playing these guitars in person.
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
quote:
I have played a Marvi negra it sounded very good in direct comparison to several well respected makers. It was loud, rich and powerful but not classical sounding. Basses were profound, deep but not muffled, trebles were full, clear, expressive; the balance between was very good.
It had real character it was a strong, macho sound and had that kind of built in 'reverb' resonance, overall a very musical guitar. I would say it sounded beautiful. It was one of those guitars that sounded flamenco very easily- didn't need much right hand.
I found the Marvi was comfortable to play for left and right hand, moderately stiff pulsation. The construction and wood was obviously top quality. The Marvi was double lined and the neck construction is special so there's more wood upto the soundhole; it wasn't a light guitar but not remarkably heavy. I didn't find the weight was a problem at all but having played guitars considerably varying in weight I don't find that weight makes any difference in playability to me personally.
Although an exceptional guitar it would not be my first choice. I imagine it would be good for recording, playing solo or playing at home but I prefer uglier, more dynamic sounding blancas, I personally prefer flat Condes which don't sound flamenco unless you make them!
Still the Marvi was great I don't know why they're not used more, maybe the price? Too full and not rough/cutting enough for accompaniment? (Or because as Doit suggests, the headstock is reminisent of the male genitalia?)
Maybe they are used for recording and we just don't know it? There are players that always perform with the same guitar but record with other makers too.
Nice review orsonw!
I almost bought a Marvi from Johannes from Mundo Flamenco a few months ago. The deal fell out because I couldn't gather the money at the time... but a Marvi negra is still very much in my books and I'll probably get one when I have some guitar money to spend.
I have not tried one yet but it was one of those guitars I always thought I'd buy without trying because Andy has such a good reputation. My opinion has changed now... I'll definitely try one before buying but to come back to Andy's pricing, considering the current prices on the market, I don't think that Andy's prices are overwhelmingly high when you consider the quality of the woods used and the overall quality of the instrument. I think that they represent a good investment as they should not loose too much value over the years. I have also been surprised that not many pros play them, especially since Gerardo has both recorded and played live with them... the Vicente Amigo/Reyes price ratio has not happened with Marvi yet! lol
That said I must also admit that every videos or audio tracks of Marvi I've heard apart from Gerardo's Encuentro video has been a disappointment. Of course it's all down to recording quality so before I try one I cannot judge.
Concerning the weight of the guitar, Johannes told me that Marvi builds his guitars with a double back/sides so that the risk of cracking is limited. The downside is that the guitar is heavy... but apparently he can build a guitar with single back/sides although Andy does not recommend it for the reason mentioned above. I find that reason weird since most guitars are not built with double back/sides and most of them do not crack unless you leave it in a dry weather without any humidification.
Something else I find very interesting in orsonw's review is his comparing a Marvi to a Conde... Marvi does not require a lot of right hand to sound good whilst Conde really needs a strong right hand to start sounding good! Personally, I must admit that I tend to appreciate guitars where you have to work... I like it when a guitar fights back and does not let itself be tamed so easily. I find that a guitar like that tends to improve your technique and also tends to give a better playing experience... of course it's a question of taste but this is one of the reason why I always come back to my Conde.
But here again, I do not know... so it seems that trying a Marvi is on the list of things to do before the end of the world!!!
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to KMMI77)
quote:
ORIGINAL: KMMI77
I would be interested to read any stories from anyone who has played one of Marvi's Flamencos.
When i first heard Gerardo playing the guitar in the picture i was amazed by the sound as well. I assumed many flamencos would start playing them but that doesn't appear to be the case? Does the extra weight effect the playability in a big way? Are they difficult to play? What's the deal?
Other threads in FT forum I refer to the time I was in spain and played that EXACT guitar and heard marvi explain his innovation, building the neck through the body to reinforce super high treble notes. I felt it was just a classical guitar with a tap plate. Gerardo sounds good on any guitar, but I wish you could hear him on the same dvd with his conde as a proper comparison.
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
I think that it has too much buzz too Deniz... Gerardo sounds amazing playing on his own (or with just palmas) but I can imagine the Marvi not cutting through as much as his Conde when playing in another format.
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
This is all very insightful and interesting.
One of the main reasons I posted this thread was my curiosity of negra vs blancas.
So if one were to be often amplified or playing solo, what would be the point in having a guitar design to have maximum attack?
I understand that when doing a rapid succession of rasgueados the soundboard could potentially 'max out'. I presume that this is why a classical sounds 'muddy'.
I suppose as with so many things this is just part subjectivity part traditionality.
What I have been yearning for it something that has the low action and high level of attack that my flamenco blanca has but with more swell in the basses like my classical has.
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
quote:
Am I seeking the grail or what?
Pretty much!!
Seriously though, I have played negras I'm sure you would love! It's a question of looking around at what's available for your budget and trying if possible.
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Guitar identification - Gerardo ... (in reply to jaggedsphere)
quote:
Am I seeking the grail or what?
Well it is a trade off, or see saw. You can't have both really. Mid range is good for rasgueado, as is treble, but bass is nice for everything else but makes mud for rasgueados. Balance is what you want to seek. Conde is popular for this reason, good balance.
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