Shoulder pain

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Shoulder pain

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Pawo

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010

Shoulder pain

Any advice on this problem would be much appreciated. I've been playing guitar on and off for the last 35 years, but have only started practising seriously and regularly quite recently. I've developed a pain in my right shoulder (fretting hand). I notice this more when having to hold a barre for extended sections...for example there's an escobilla section of a alegria falsetta in the Graf-Martinez book which is played with a barre at the fourth fret. I feel my hand is strong enough to hold the barre (no thumb pain) but the pain in the shoulder makes it uncomfortable to hold the barre for that long.

This is probably all down to bad habits formed long ago....
Your thoughts fellas...

Thanks
Dave S

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 9:41:35

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to Pawo)

Hey, im not a pro, and younger than you but i can say some things that i think are pretty important.

First one is before playing, warming up is a good idea, it is like when you practice martial arts or any physical activity, warm up and stretch a bit, it helps to make your muscles ready for activity, remember to do this slowly and carefull, so you dont strain yourself too much.

Second thing is general physical activity, and especially when you come over a age of 40 i think this is very important so that you dont clog up.
I think swimming, martial arts or yoga are good activities because it makes you flexible.

The most important thing is posture and the way you hold your hands, for example if you put your thumb around the neck of the guitar, your reach will dimminish and cause strain when barring for example.
How do you hold your guitar?

Also after i started doing some weight lifting(not too heavy) I noticed i got even stronger and it was easier to play well, i just bought a couple of these manual weights and do a couple of reps on a weight that isnt very heavy, i have a problem in my left side muscles strenght and this helped alot.

Also maybe you can try stretching out after you are done, it will make you more ready for the next time.

I hope this somehow helps, it did help for me, even though i am only 19, i was in the same situation as you, i have the back of a 70 year old, and have to do this to keep it normal.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 10:17:36

Pawo

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to odinz)

Hey Jonas.
Sorry to hear about your 'aged' back! Hope you're still playing when you reach my age...

Yes, physical exercise is important I know...should do more yoga...done a bit over the years but now's the time I think to do some more

Posture is always a challenge...sitting upright with a good back is hard to maintain if it's not a habit...slouching over the neck is the default in my case

I think my general technique is ok hand position etc...but there's obviously something wrong somewhere. Aches and pains are par for the course I think for any instrument and maybe it's all a matter of minimising aches and pains as much as possible

Not too sure about weights though...although it's good they've helped you

Thanks for your thoughts

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 10:42:14

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to Pawo)

Well the thing with the weights is that you use your muscles for something else, but i am not sure about how much you use them, but guitar aches can also come from doing the same thing for too long, as with so many things.

The thing with position that i found was, buy a chair that can regulate height or a bar chair(one of those round ones, because when i sat in a cosy chair, sofa or a low chair i sit in a really bad position, but it is of course prefferences and getting used to it and all. What is right for me, might not be right for you.

One thing i learned in classical guitar was to just be lose in the left shoulder and elbow, and let it all feel like it is hanging from the hand, if that makes any sense

And of course not squeeze too hard with the thumb, even when i bar, my thumb is almost not pushing in at all, just enough to have a grip.

I think someone more experienced than me will give you alot better advice, but i think it is worth it to analyze everything you do.

Good luck, and i hope it doesnt last long for you, if you get inflammations, go see a doctor

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 11:48:15

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to Pawo)

Hello Pawo,

Here a couple of points that could have to do with your pain:

One of the typical problems guitarists seem to face are inbalances in the shoulder and neck area.
What increases the frettings arms tensioning is the circumstance that often times with barre both, push against the fretboard and counter from behind the neck are being excerted.

Should you find yourself executing barre in such a way, you might try to change technique.
The power for the initial fingers fretting of barre should not be provided by an i-finger / thumb clamp, but by a pull from fretting sides ellbow and shoulder, while the counter being provided through plucking sides ellbow, which will resist the necks lever through pressure against the corpus upper bout.
Practise barre with the thumb off the neck.

Another frequent problem results from players watching their fretting hand. The constant wrench of player´s neck can result in muscular strain / inbalance and consequent issues.

Keeping the head straight and getting used to playing "blindly" helps.

In regard of lower back problems, the best advice is to play standing. Walking around while playing is even better.
Just don´t use a strap for ergonomics sake.

For acute release of the lower back, accupressure at the pubic bone is indicated, but detailed introduction into how-to-do should be provided first.

Yoga crocodile exercise ( nakara asana ) really helps a lot against blocked back; prohylactically as well as therapeutically.
The simple version ( foot on foot, foot on upper leg, legs bended, bended legs up ) will do. It takes ~ 10 minutes per day.
Really worth it.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 11:49:11

Pawo

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to odinz)

quote:

One thing i learned in classical guitar was to just be lose in the left shoulder and elbow, and let it all feel like it is hanging from the hand

This sounds helpful... You probably guessed that I meant my left shoulder not the right where the pain is (I'm right handed). It's interesting that I often notice that flamenco players really let their arm and shoulder (fretting hand) hang down quite low as opposed to classical players where the guitar neck is oftentimes held up at quite a steep angle. I need to re-examine this.

Squeezing from the thumb and index is something that I have corrected over the years and try more to kind of pull the guitar towards me using back and shoulders to get strength in the barres...but I need to re-examine this

Hope to get this sorted...if I live to old age would be nice to still be able to play and to serenade my wife in our retirement

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 12:18:29

Pawo

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

The power for the initial fingers fretting of barre should not be provided by an i-finger / thumb clamp, but by a pull from fretting sides ellbow and shoulder, while the counter being provided through plucking sides ellbow, which will resist the necks lever through pressure against the corpus upper bout.
Practise barre with the thumb off the neck.

Thanks Ruphus

Yes this is something that I've been aware of and trying to achieve but obviously need to re-examine how I'm doing it.

Don't generally have lower back problems.
Looking straight ahead and not at fretboard I need to practice more.

Defaulting into bad habits is so easy...doesn't take any effort at all!

But the effort needed to correct them can sometime seem too much...

Cheers anyway

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 12:24:56

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Shoulder pain (in reply to Pawo)

quote:

Hope to get this sorted...if I live to old age would be nice to still be able to play and to serenade my wife in our retirement

Im sure you will sort this out, this stuff is done by experimentation, what hurts and tires you, and what doesnt, I hold my guitar at a slight angle, simmilar to sabicas, but a bit lower, sometimes i cross my leg sometimes i dont, same goes for foot support thingy.

I bet your wife must appreciate that kind of treatment, luxuary

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 18 2011 15:15:48