Those 12 holes are driving me crazy

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Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!!

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Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

Those 12 holes are driving me crazy ...

Hola amigos,

I need some tip from you gitanos,

well, if you remeber long time ago maybe in 2007, i was searching about buyuing a flamenco hand made guitar,

I made lots of search , and I asked plenty with the small budget i had,

I decide to let Jeff make me one, and he did make me a great Blanka,

any way, his blanca with 12 holes bridge, I was worring about how should i change the strings,

the basses where fine and easy, but the trubles with the trebels,

If I tie them the way I tie the basses they get loose , Jeff tied them in a way that they dont get loose, I couldnt figure out how,

CAN YOU HELP ME GUYS??? I SEPNT MORE THEN 2 HOURS TRYING TO TIE THE TREBELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If have any video, or any one can make me a video to how to tie strings with 12 holes for the trebels so they dont get lose, that will be great,

Ole

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Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 9:40:41

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

If you do the trebbles, use a knot at the end.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 9:44:34

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

err... didnt you say in the other post that you were an engineer?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 9:46:55

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

I use a cigarette lighter to create a bubble on the end of the treble strings. Just move the end of the string into the flame. It will create a bubble as the string melts. Take it out of the flame and it will harden in a few seconds. No more slipping and no negative effects on the string. Practice on an old string first and don't touch it till it hardens and cools. Also be careful not to bring it into contact with anything until it cools and hardens either. especially the guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 9:53:03

orsonw

Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to KMMI77)

Here's a link to a tutorial with photographs.

http://www.jameslisterguitars.co.uk/ListerGuitars/12-hole_tie_block.htm

When tied properly I find that the trebles never slip so melting the end isn't neccessary.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 12:19:07

Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

thanks guys,

Deniz,

quote:

err... didnt you say in the other post that you were an engineer?

Deniz, belive me, I may be an engineer in other field , but in flamenco I am very very very small student

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Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 14:33:47

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

burning treble strings smell horrible.

i used to do one loop for the basses, two for B and G and three for the high E.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 18:16:34

BarkellWH

Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Burning the end of the trebles to create a bubble marks one as a real amateur. What in American baseball would be called "bush league." No self-respecting flamenco guitarist would do such a thing. Imagine if you were performing for an audience and one of your trebles broke. Would you sit on the stage and re-string your guitar by placing a lighter at the end of the string?

Learn to do it the correct way by looping and tying the strings on the 12-hole bridge. It's not really hard once you get the hang of it.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 20:19:51

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to BarkellWH)

Leo, Keep your nose away, Lol

quote:

Burning the end of the trebles to create a bubble marks one as a real amateur. What in American baseball would be called "bush league." No self-respecting flamenco guitarist would do such a thing. Imagine if you were performing for an audience and one of your trebles broke. Would you sit on the stage and re-string your guitar by placing a lighter at the end of the string?

Bill, What nonsense

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 21:13:46

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Putting a ball on the end of the trebles has nothing to do with the string slipping or not. It just gives you some insurance that if it does, it won’t put a big gouge in the top. It will slip to the knot and stop.

The back of the tie block is what holds the stings on. Do it like the pictures and it won’t slip.

If putting a ball on the trebles is for amateurs, than I am the biggest armature here. Do you need the ball? No but in my opinion if you don’t put it on, it’s just a matter of time before you screw up a top. I talk from experience. It takes just seconds to do it.

But hey, if you want to look like a pro….don’t put them on.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 22:26:00

BarkellWH

Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

If putting a ball on the trebles is for amateurs, than I am the biggest armature here. Do you need the ball? No but in my opinion if you don’t put it on, it’s just a matter of time before you screw up a top. I talk from experience. It takes just seconds to do it.

That, of course, is the purpose of learning to properly loop and tie the strings. Done correctly, they will not slip and damage the top.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2011 23:14:58

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

quote:

That, of course, is the purpose of learning to properly loop and tie the strings. Done correctly, they will not slip and damage the top.

Until they do.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 3:03:10

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

I know you guys don't like Ruben around here, but he has a video on how to do this.

For the trebles:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 4:16:20

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Well now that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in a long time. A simple knot at the back of the tie block is all you need. You don’t need (or want) all those wraps on top of the block. It just invites slippage.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 5:11:51

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 1 2011 7:45:57

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 7:31:00

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

check out my old thread. Anders posted a very good picture

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=109111&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=12%2Chole&tmode=&smode=&s=#109644

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 9:22:57

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

Well now that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in a long time. A simple knot at the back of the tie block is all you need. You don’t need (or want) all those wraps on top of the block. It just invites slippage

Wrong - your post is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time.

Do you really think I would post that if there is slippage?

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The universe is indeed expanding - to get away from this planet.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 12:16:04

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Yojimbo)

uhm...there's slippage...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 13:38:40

Morante

Posts: 2184
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Yojimbo)

Eres amigo de Rubèn o sabe algo de guitarras? Porque me parece que no. Desde hace años toco una guitarra de "12 holes" sin problema.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 14:54:37

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 1 2011 15:40:50

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 15:40:37

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

quote:

Wrong - your post is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time.

Do you really think I would post that if there is slippage?

Have a nice day.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 15:41:54

BarkellWH

Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Patrick)

I own three flamenco guitars, two with six-hole tie-blocks and one with a 12-hole tie-block, and I loop and tie the strings, both bass and trebles, without ever having had a string slip. I'm not doubting that you have had strings slip, and that they damaged the top of your guitar. My point is, looped and tied correctly, there is absolutely no reason to burn a ball at the end of the string because it will not slip in the first place. Correct looping and tying is key. And the loops don't have to look like hangman's nooses, as they do in Yojimbo's posted exercise.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 18:04:09

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Bill,

I agree one hundred percent. The ball may be overkill, but why not? It only takes a second to do and makes me happy! It’s kind of like insurance. Do you need it on your car, your house, your life, your boat? No, but I’m not willing to take the chance.

If I had a string break in a concert would I melt a ball on the end? No I would just tie on a new string and redo it on the next string change. I only change trebles every six months or so, so what’s a few seconds to melt the end?

Regards

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 18:23:25

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

Have a nice day.

Personally, my Anders Negra is the only 12 hole tieblock guitar I have.
I just loop the string under the wrap and it doesn't slip.
No looping round and round or burning balls...

(Though (in my young days) I did have an accident in bed once lighting a girl's cigarette..ouch!

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 19:32:13

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

(Though (in my young days) I did have an accident in bed once lighting a girl's cigarette..ouch! )

morale is: dont smoke in bed?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 19:47:27

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

quote:

burning balls...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 19:56:00

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Patrick)

How could i miss that one...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 20:02:30

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to BarkellWH)

For about thirty years I looped and tied my strings without burning balls, as in the top picture here

http://tinyurl.com/3s39zf2

except I tie them so the tails go to the left, and I leave the bass tails just a little longer.

Then a first string slipped and gouged the top of my then fairly new 1991 Contreras doble tapa. The string was looped and tied the way I had been doing it for decades on a six-hole tie block. It's still the only mark on the guitar.

Ever since, I have been a bush leaguer on six-hole tie blocks.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2011 20:16:10

BarkellWH

Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Those 12 holes are driving me cr... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

Ever since, I have been a bush leaguer on six-hole tie blocks.

No sweat, Richard. I have been a bush-leaguer all my life, and in my case it has nothing to do with how I tie my guitar strings!

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2011 10:21:44