Sore muscles/tendons

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John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

Sore muscles/tendons

Hi all,

have any of you had sore muscles/tendons at the top of the forearm? Not the elbow, but just below, both sides. I've had it for a couple of weeks now and it's getting better, but veeeery slowly. It's not a pain I wake up at night with, more an annoying burning and stiffness, the pain gets a bit sharp when I make a fist. Possibly it's not very serious, but possible chronic pains in that area generally scare the hell out of me.

I'm an idiot. I was practicing bulerias with a lot of thumb work too fast without a capo. Now I've stopped practicing, but I can't stop playing because I have shows and stuff. I'll be seeing a physio as soon as I can.

Any tips would be welcome!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 17:21:33

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Sounds like tendinitis. I had this in the 80's when I played too much. I quit playing and it went away completely. You might have to take it easy or stop playing. Hopefully your doctor can give you some assistance. Maybe a person with a background in sports medicine can give you a better idea what you can do to get over this.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 18:11:03

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Thanks! So it won't necessarily end my career...

How long did you put the guitar down for?

I've had much worse pain but it never lasted this long.

I definitely need to change my playing style a bit. I recently visited a classical guitar teacher who gave me some great tips on relaxing the arms while playing to relieve shoulder pain, it's already helped quite a bit.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 18:23:05

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

quote:

Any tips would be welcome!

Eventuell kühlen, weniger ohne Pausen üben (also immer viele Pausen machen). Spiel vorübergehend mehr mit Capo wenns der Greifarmist. Spar dir den Physiotherapeuten. Das ist keine anerkannte Heilpraktik. Es sind alles Scharlertane. Frag einen richtigen Arzt nach einer Salbe. Und frag ihn auch gleich ob du kühlen oder wärmen sollst.

Mach keinen Scheiß John! Fahr am besten die Übungen auf das Nötigste runter.

Wünsche gute Genesung!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 18:26:56

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to Doitsujin)

Danke Doit! Also morgen früh direkt zu einem richtigen Arzt, mindestens 2 Wochen keine Übungen mehr.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 18:31:47

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

quote:

How long did you put the guitar down for?

I didn't play for years. I spent a month practicing synchronized picking on electric guitar--a few hours a day at first and then up to 12 to 16 hours a day (but like I said only for a month). I didn't see a doctor; I just was tired of guitar at that point.

You could try reducing the inflammation with ice. My folks were in Germany years back and a person who was with them received a prescription for some type of steroidal cream that was illegal in the USA. He said it worked really well. I bet an MD can sort this out, but I would definitely take it easy for a while.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 18:35:34

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

also mir hat die Physiotherapeutin sehr geholfen. Ich hatte nen "steifen" (nich lachen...) Zeigefinger an der Spielhand und die Übungen haben schon was gebracht. Jetzt wo ich die Übungen vernachlässigt habe, kommen die Symptome wieder, ich muss da was machen. Ärzte zeigen keine Übungen, sie stellen nur eine Diagnose und schicken dich nur zu jemandem der sich das ganze in Rahmen einer Therapie genauer anguckt und daher weiss was du machen musst.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 19:32:38

changue

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Greetings John

I had a really bad episode of this about 10 years ago. I ended up being forced to stop playing completely as the fingers of my right hand suffered from numbness and an odd 'lack of focus' and lack of power and range in the movement. I realise now that if I had rested more at the time of the first occurrence I would have DRAMATICALLY reduced the recovery time. I still have problems but I don't panic so much these days because I know there are solutions.

Everyone is different but, in addition to rest, the two things that helped me most were Iyengar Yoga and a type of Indian massage called Chavutti Thirumal.
There is a specialist centre in Paris (http://cliniquedumusicien.com/). I have not attended this clinic but I have heard great things about it.

In my experience, rest is absolutely vital.

I really wish you the best of luck with this. There's nothing worse than wanting to play and not being physically able. Fingers crossed you just have a short term issue to deal with.

Good luck.

CH

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 20:18:57

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

quote:

have any of you had sore muscles/tendons at the top of the forearm? Not the elbow, but just below, both sides.

the muscles which extend (straighten) the fingers are there, the tendons attach (or insert, i can't remember which without looking it up) just below the elbow.

Although we often think that we use extensors for rasgeo and flexors for picado/arpegio/tremolo, the reality is that in each case we use the opposite muscles for returning to playing position.

When flexors contract, the extensors should relax, and vice versa. if both are contracting at the same time you get "tension" and possible strain and pain.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 20:55:49

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

EDIT
I have deleted the earlier post. It was an inappropriate post for the internet where misunderstandings can so easily occur. I apologize.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2011 22:36:02

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to orsonw)

Thanks for the tips everyone! The left side is almost completely gone already after a couple days of not practicing and the right side is quite a bit better. Still gonna see a doctor today. And I guess now I finally have time to do my taxes and brush up on my Spanish

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2011 7:02:17

davidheis_24

Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 4 2011

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 16 2011 10:20:27

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2011 9:46:34

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Got a good doctor. He said it was a____itis, not arthritis, something else, like tendonitis. He said if it gets chronic only an operation will help, so better to react too quick than not quick enough. I got diclofenac in 75mg pills and creme which I keep in the freezer, some homeopathic tablets and I was told to stop doing anything not necessary with the hands for at least 10 days, including the computer - which I'll start right now. Please wish me luck with this...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 10:11:51

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

John, it sounds like you caught it in time and, if you follow the doctor's advice, you'll be fine. Best of luck to you!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 12:06:45

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John O.

Got a good doctor. He said it was a____itis, not arthritis, something else, like tendonitis. He said if it gets chronic only an operation will help, so better to react too quick than not quick enough. I got diclofenac in 75mg pills and creme which I keep in the freezer, some homeopathic tablets and I was told to stop doing anything not necessary with the hands for at least 10 days, including the computer - which I'll start right now. Please wish me luck with this...

Epicondylitis? If so... your Doc must be old and not really skilled in treating this kind of injury because he's using an old school outdated approach to treat this IMO.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 14:34:02

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Yes indeed. Tell me more! He told me I shouldn't stretch it yet and cool it as often as possible.

Also keep in mind this man is in his 40's, looked at and felt my arm, asked how long I've had the pain, where the pain is and how much it hurt and decided the treatment based on this info which is very hard to get exactly over the internet.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 17:35:33

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

And Doit, I think you told me a doctor would do something along these lines, what do you think?

My mother who's a doctors assistant and who got treatment for a shattered shoulder blade some years ago told me it sounded good and competent to her too. Stop the enflammation and let it heal, just like any infected injury.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 17:42:56

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

quote:

Stop the enflammation and let it heal, just like any infected injury.

Right! To me as a doctor that's sound advice.
So maybe "DoctorX2k2" should stop the inflammatory speech (AKA trolling).

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El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 19:48:12

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Dont want to spoil the fun... but is not every doctor giving this same advice to all patients every time?

"Doc, my hand hurts, what can i do?"
- "rest, take some pills, get some cream"

"Doc, i have heart attacks all the time, cant breathe well and my nose
bleeds all the time. what can i do?"
- "rest, take some pills, get some cream"

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 20:18:13

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to XXX)

"Doc, I have a pie stuck in my butt"
"No problem, I've got some cream for that"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 20:20:59

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to edguerin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

quote:

Stop the enflammation and let it heal, just like any infected injury.

Right! To me as a doctor that's sound advice.
So maybe "DoctorX2k2" should stop the inflammatory speech (AKA trolling).

How ironic... as epicondylitis biopsies show no signs of inflammation at all. They even want to change the name of this illness because of it.

I wasn't going to give him answers before he confirms that his doc really diagnosed epicondylitis. And my speech wasn't "inflammatory"... I could care less about John O. and yourself, but I felt he should be getting the best available info and treatment.

John O. just do what your doc said. I'm not in the helping mood right now. You will heal eventually anyways.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 21:47:50

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Hey John, i have frequently pains actually, but as soon as they start i just stop doing it and take the hand under lukewarm water and then later massage it wih my thumb in circular movement, then i just rest for rest of the day, next they i just shake the hand a bit and warm it up really slowly before guitar practice, and then i am about as good as new usually. Just be slow and all, and dont strain yourself with anything.

Dont know if massage and that helps you but i wish you good recovery anyways!

-Jonas

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2011 21:59:38

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

quote:

How ironic... as epicondylitis biopsies show no signs of inflammation at all.

I checked websites for this. Out of ten pages on Google 9 mentioned inflammation, one mentioned a trial showing no inflammation 9 out of 10 times. I told my doctor I had a burning, itching feeling, that's how he knew there was inflammation - point I made above. The burning, itching feeling that goes away when I take anti-inflammatories.

quote:

I could care less about John O.

quote:

John O. just do what your doc said. I'm not in the helping mood right now. You will heal eventually anyways.

Some problems do solve themselves

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2011 7:43:36

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Yup!

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El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2011 7:55:44

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

@ Mark thinking in terms of agonist/antagonist is too simplistic. (And even the following description is a simplification!)
There are several flexors and extensors, working across mulitple joints. There is a complex and elegant synergy between muscle groups. In any action some muscles produce movement while others produce no movement but stabilse to allow another muscle to act.....etc.

you can make it really complex down to the chemical level, or you can look at the basic and quite simple movement principles. Often these are of more practical use.

i am well aware that in any given movement some muscles will fire to create the movement and others will fire to stabilise certain parts relative to the movement.

For a professional physiotherapist, osteopathist or doctor detailed knowledge is necessary, but for someone who wants to improve their movement behaviour it is not always so. In fact if someone takes this level of knowledge and tries to intentionally contract the muscles that stabilise parts relative to other parts in moving they are highly likely to create more problems for themselves.

from where i am coming from with this, anatomical and physiological knowledge is not so much for informing what I do, but for informing what I don't do, ie. for making sure that I am not trying to do anything in anyway inconsistent with the structure and function of the system.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2011 9:06:53

terry70

Posts: 26
Joined: Mar. 28 2005

RE: Sore muscles/tendons (in reply to John O.)

Anybody dealing with chronic hand/arm/shoulder/back pain needs to read books by Dr. John Sarno. He gives amazing insights that may be tough to swallow, but for many they work.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2011 14:49:57