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RE: Who here came to flamenco via jazz/improv vs. through composed music?
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
quote:
no comments about this whacky and true story...... damn.... all that typing for nuthin'
Crap.
loved that story.
btw, your previous posts about playing too hard inspired me to get hardcore at a gig last night, which resulted in a torn off thumb nail. no blood though, phew!...
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to turnermoran)
quote:
Would flamenco "work" if one said to himself "I'm gonna play a bulerias, and limit myself to not playing any falsettas I know, yet keep playing and improvising them while staying in compas - in a public performance?"
If you do this you run the risk of getting the party started. I highly recommend doing this, but make sure and use extra 6's and also don't use rehearsed "compas playing".... this is where people really show what they are made of. And last but not least....... just because something technically fits into the course of 12 beats, it doesn't necessarily mean its bulerias..... its much deeper than that. But you know that and that is precisely the reason why I don't really throw an improvised Choro in my flamenco sets...... because I don't have a forking clue as to whats going on there and I have tons of respect for that music. Plus...... Yamandu Costa cured me of ever thinking I needed to add that to my list of things to do.
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
You guys are the sh*t!
@jason - thank you for your warning about "getting the party started". I'll do my best to make sure that never happens. That sounds dangerous and recklessly irresponsible.
Speaking of which I have some horrible new flamenco-Choro compositions to share. Fakemenco to be sure. I don't know if you're legally able to call them that, but I'll ask my lawyer, and if you can, that would be great, as I need to make some money from them what with a new baby on the horizon and all...
Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to Ron.M)
Really? First time I saw this vid, I loved it. The big sound of the guitar, the tuning , all of it. I really like the style of playing where there's tons of rhythm, and a few falsetas that seem like they might be being created on the spot. Not that I don't like when someone like Vicente Amigo plays a completely worked out incredible piece of music, but this kind of playing has a lot of freedom in it, and as you say, it's the rhythm that counts. It might be boring as music, but not as flamenco IMO.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
quote:
this could be impro
I'm pretty sure it is "off the cuff" (ie playing stuff in an area they've explored before in private), but if you listen to it carefully, it's actually quite boring, with the same template being used all the time and ending in the Rondeñas resolving chord which they milk for all it's worth like a kid with a new toy.
"Hey check me out ...eh?"
The main thing these guys have is good rhythm, so they could play anything and fart on 10 and it would still be pretty good Flamenco, since most Flamencos care more about the rhythm than any damn notes or fancy fingering anyway.
(They are only half-listening anyway and waiting for the singer. )
Actually, thinking about it, a lot of the OldSchool falsetas were very cleverly thought out pieces of intricate genius in comparison to this IMO.
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to turnermoran)
quote:
I don't know if you're legally able to call them that, but I'll ask my lawyer, and if you can, that would be great, as I need to make some money from them what with a new baby on the horizon and all...
I have used Spiro as a lawyer in the past in some Fakemenco™ matters. He is highly recommended.
Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
I got into flamenco through my father playing it. First thing he showed me was basic rhythm for verdialles and a traditional sevillanas and i think a simple version of Blue Spanish Eyes. No jazz in that lot so i would have to answer no.
Sometimes at gigs my friend and i will play bulerias and we make it a rule that you can't play any falsetas that you already know. There have been times when it works out better than our rehearsed bulerias, and other times it is terrible. Always fun though.
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to orsonw)
quote:
@Jason, enjoyed the story, and I am really enjoying that por medio harmony lesson you posted. I'm no expert but I do occasionally improvise when I'm playing por bulerias and tangos. I think one just has to go for it, my compas usually keeps me in check. It's amazing what comes out when you take the risk- doesn't always work out but it's very enjoyable.
Glad you are enjoying that lesson. Here is a continuation and a more detailed explanation of that barred material. Enjoy....... click the ads please!
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
Dude!
I'm totally diggin' ur falsetas, bro. Is Dudemanko taken - even better, bro, Bromanko? HAHA j/k Jason, your California harmonies are great. I know your a critic of fashion, so is the Lebowski look in?
No, really I am just kidding.
But seriously, I do not agree with Jason on improvosation within flamenco. There are certian identifying features that if not present are not flamenco. Please listent to Jasons explanations and examples and then these...
I think it speaks for itself.
Someone said it better before, it's the cante not the guitar.
I think one needs to be careful. There is more to it than this, obviously, but I think if you stay with cante you are on safe ground when improvising. The voice should be what we strive emulate. This is my opinion.
JAR
_____________________________
His amazing technique is one that never loses touch with the spiritual improvisation and direct communication style of flamenco and which does not make virtuosity a goal in itself, but communicates deep sublime emotional qualities. - Manolo Sanlucar
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to Joven35)
quote:
Someone said it better before, it's the cante not the guitar.
In the cante for Martinete, Seguiriyas, Livianas and Cabales are contained ALL of the meoldic ideas mentioned in my video on "por medio harmony."
Big Lebowski....... cool. Manolo Franco's sweater..... not so cool. However he is a ****ing ass kicking guitarist.... but he is rushing a bit those falsetas and they would a be a lot funkier if he weren't rushing.
maybe you should go back to working on tuvan throat singing
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
HAHA Ouch!
Poor Franco, there is another one where he gets his foot wet.
JAR
_____________________________
His amazing technique is one that never loses touch with the spiritual improvisation and direct communication style of flamenco and which does not make virtuosity a goal in itself, but communicates deep sublime emotional qualities. - Manolo Sanlucar
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
Yeah, I should.
I am singing cante though and that is tough enough for me.
JAR
_____________________________
His amazing technique is one that never loses touch with the spiritual improvisation and direct communication style of flamenco and which does not make virtuosity a goal in itself, but communicates deep sublime emotional qualities. - Manolo Sanlucar
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
quote:
here is more to it than this, obviously, but I think if you stay with cante you are on safe ground when improvising. The voice should be what we strive emulate. This is my opinion.
While your at it...... post a video of yourself improvising. Show us exactly how it is YOU emulate the cante while improvising. It will make a great lesson to the many here who are trying to get a handle on playing more "off the cuff."
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
Now draw, cowboy!
HAHA
Thanks for the laugh, Jason. G'nite. My post stands.
JAR
_____________________________
His amazing technique is one that never loses touch with the spiritual improvisation and direct communication style of flamenco and which does not make virtuosity a goal in itself, but communicates deep sublime emotional qualities. - Manolo Sanlucar
RE: Who here came to flamenco via ja... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
quote:
Flouride. They give it to prison populations to keep them obedient and uncreative.
Its funny how one sentence can gain the respect of an individual (myself) who previously felt you were overbearing due to your other (i wont name it) thread of seemingly personal gripe venting. I may have judged the other thread totally wrong, but we should not get personal here on the internet in any case, as inevidatbly (sorry for spelling, cant be bothered spell checking) people will get completly the wrong idea or presume a motive that just isnt there. Fluride was used by the germans in the POW camps to control the prisoners, and to easily manage them. Fluride is put in pretty much EVERY countries water supply under the pretence that it is good for your teeth. Studies have shown it ROTS your teeth. There is no reason for fluride to be in the water supply...yet why is it still there? Dont get me started on aspartime... We all have a choice, we can all continue knowingly consuming toxins and poisins that dull our mind and severly impede our rational and oblective logic...or we can eat good natural food, and wake up and smell the coffee. Think for yourself, dont be told how you should percieve the world. Turn off the telivision and avoid the blatent social engineering (beside its cringeworthy and embarassing to watch) Do you want to be a slave or an individual with your own freedom of thought? Even though it is may be a bit of a cliche, it is true... it is better to die fighting than to live on your knees.
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no blood though, phew!... 
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