Looking for gig amp advice

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a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

Looking for gig amp advice

Anybody have any experience with the new American Audio PPA-210 gig amp? It looks really nice. Right now I have a Roland AC-60, which is OK but the two 30 watt channels are a little underpowered for larger venues.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 2:25:14

Guest

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

hey that looks pretty cool..
never seen or heard them...
standard amp rigs i've seen are
http://www.aer-amps.info/
or
http://www.acousticimg.com/flash-index.html
seem to be the most common amongst players at festivals etc..
guess you need to A - B the systems
the acoustic image has alot of headroom

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 3:51:40

HeavyWood

Posts: 37
Joined: Apr. 19 2010
From: San Antonio, TX

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

a_arnold,

Are you using a pickup/transducer, or a microphone?

In my past live playing experience with an amplified nylon string guitar,
with a saddle pickup, I used a Trace Acoustic TA-100 and really did not love the sound. I believed it colored the sound.

The amps posted above are both excellent, but pricey, choices, and
I believe they have a mic input and preamp to tailor the sound.
These are probably more neutral sounding

However do not discount a good powered speaker(links below) for your application. They are generally more neutral sounding, flexable,
and have an enough wattage to project your sound.

These three are light and loud, & kinda expensive. I do not like the stuff by JBL, Samson, etc., but the price is right for most.

http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=209

http://www.rcf.it/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-series/art-310-a

http://www.fbtusa.net/2acs.html

You will need a dedicated preamp for the above to match whichever source you use, whether it is a pickup or mic, or dual source.

Hope this helps...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 6:18:38

HeavyWood

Posts: 37
Joined: Apr. 19 2010
From: San Antonio, TX

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

Mistake correction...

Actually, the above powered speakers have mic inputs with preamp
and mixing capabilities built in to the power section at the rear of the speaker.

Just plug your mic in and adjust your sound...

Sorry for the confusion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 6:24:45

Guest

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to HeavyWood)

quote:

Are you using a pickup/transducer, or a microphone?

good point...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 9:31:14

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to Guest)

quote:

hey that looks pretty cool..
never seen or heard them...

The recent PSSL catalog (800) 945-9300 lists the PPA-210 as a new product. They are available at Best Buy too -- both places say the list is $700 but they are selling for $500 -- at best Buy they have an 18 mo warranty and an interest-free payment plan.

I guess that is why there aren't any reviews out there. It is too new.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 15:05:20

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to HeavyWood)

quote:

Are you using a pickup/transducer, or a microphone?

That's my eternal problem. I have luthier-built guitars that are too good to modify with a pickup, so I use a mic -- but for the convenience and mobility I use a good quality wireless lapel mic clipped to the soundhole, so feedback is an issue. the Roland AC-60 has feedback detection/suppression circuitry, but it is still a problem at higher amplification levels.

Maybe the higher wattage of the PPA-210 (150/channel vs 30 in the Roland) will make feedback a little less of a problem?

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 15:13:12

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to HeavyWood)

quote:

However do not discount a good powered speaker(links below) for your application.

Sorry to be so ignorant. Right now I tinker with the FX and eq functions of the Roland-AC60 to return the amplified output to a more natural sound. Not perfect, but acceptable.

But I'm not familiar with powered speakers and never considered them. So a powered speaker with a preamp will give me amplification, and maybe a more natural sound, but I won't have the fx and eq functions? Also probably won't have any feedback suppression circuitry. Adding all that stuff inline separately will probably bring the price back up, I'm guessing.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 15:20:56

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to HeavyWood)

quote:

Actually, the above powered speakers have mic inputs with preamp
and mixing capabilities built in to the power section at the rear of the speaker.

I see. Hmm. So what's the difference between these and a gig amp like the Roland AC 60 or the PPA-210?

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 15:23:01

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to Guest)

quote:

hey that looks pretty cool..
never seen or heard them...

These are all portable PA systems.

THere's another slightly more expensive one (EPA-900) in the PSSL catalog that has the same feature as the PPA210 but adds a feedback suppression system and 900 watts. All clips together into a suitcase-sized carrier. They don't mention a USB input. ($599 lists $880)

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 15:35:31

Guest

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

That's my eternal problem. I have luthier-built guitars

yes it is an eternal problem
spent alot of money on a high output condensor mic
(sennhieser k6) for my ramirez
makes a huge difference...
is it a high quality wireless system like a shure or sennheiser?
even these sound a bit 'thin' in comparison...hard to control feedback unless through a theater system....

guess you need to try the system in comparison to others...which ever way good sound is'nt cheap..
never used any type of feedback suppression...
personally i find the small 'combo's mentioned above enough for small rooms/gigs, classes etc..
when doing larger rooms/events i di the combo either through an in house system or use a powered speaker [mackie] for added projection...
saying all this it took a lot of gear to come to this point...
but
certainly looks like a better option than the roland....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 19:43:24

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to Guest)

quote:

is it a high quality wireless system like a shure or sennheiser?

I doubt it. It is UHF, which is supposed to be better, but AudioTechnica.

I got the wireless mic/transmitter/receiver because I got tired of crouching over my Shure SM58 and being unable to move around. Now it is still inconvenient being tethered to my guitar by a belt-pack transmitter, but still better than a mic on a stand.

Why doesn't someone make a removable battery-powered wireless mic+transmitter that clips inside a soundhole? Such an obvious thing to do, but nobody does.

So is your sennhieser k6 condenser mic a mini lapel type or a stand-mounted one?

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 23:33:45

Guest

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en

http://miniflexmic.com/shop/

but
any type of mic inside the guitar is going to have huge feedback issues right?
we hear a guitar from the sound hole out...not from the inside
the shure or dynamic mic is a poor choice...condensors have the field you need
the dpa's are a fantastic system...
maybe put the money towards this first?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2010 1:54:47

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

Well, I finally got a look at the Behringer (EPA-900) and the PPA210. Both are disappointing -- both have quality issues. Two Behringer reviews complained that the case latches keep breaking and several other customers received units that didn't work from the beginning. The PPA210 had similar issues when I looked at it, but there isn't much of a review history.

These two are really well-designed for ease of portability, since they latch together to make a suitcase with the 2 speakers protecting the electronic control panel in the middle, and (on paper) sound perfect as gig amps for solo or small group performances, but the quality of sound and durability of materials seem to be a serious concern. A gig amp gets moved around a lot and needs to be durable.

Does anybody make a well-designed (to be readily portable) gig amp that is also well made? At any price?

The Yamaha Stagepas500 is basically 2 speakers with the controls on the back of one and storage on the back of the other, but you have to carry 2 separate units. It doesn't latch together. Plus it is pushing $1k.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2010 14:57:29

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to Guest)

quote:

any type of mic inside the guitar is going to have huge feedback issues right?
we hear a guitar from the sound hole out...not from the inside

Definitely. I clip the lapel mic outside the soundhole. I saw Paco Pena's group did this, also the guitarists for Noches Flamencas (Soledad Barrios' group). It worked for them. Works for me, too, as long as I warm up the electronics first. When first turned on, I ALWAYS have feedback issues. No idea why. It isn't a tube amp.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2010 15:01:10

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

What about something in the line-array style ie Fishman Soloamp? I have not played through one, but they seem to be quite popular as a PA/monitor.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2010 15:07:37

Guest

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

I saw Paco Pena's group did this

yes
each time i've seen paco's or any other performer use these they are going through a professional system...lots of headroom on the systems, plus various sends to the foldback etc enabling a great amount of eq flexibility, also the sound tech factor at these venues. i also use a audio technica clip on which i run through a lr baggs pre-amp. either through an AER combo or an Acoustic Image still the sennhieser [on a stand] is my preferred sound....
understand your frustration as it took a good decade for me to finally come up with a small, portable rig which works for me and the sound tech's i happen to be working with...
the thing is with some clip on mics is that they do pick up certain frequencie(s) off the soundboard of the guitar which are hard to get rid of, hence why i prefer a mic that is suspended and away from the guitar. i never feel the movement is compromised, in fact the movement to and from the mic allows me a wider tonal palette when performing
i generally point it towards the 12th fret.
lots of amps out there..just found the AER and Acoustic Image to be a natural, flexible system..somewhat pricey but...well work looking at alternatives though...

Seriously consider the DPA as a clip on

although jason speaks highly of the bartlett clip on...(much cheaper)
http://www.bartlettmics.com/

good luck
let us know what you decide
saludos

.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2010 1:39:46

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Looking for gig amp advice (in reply to Guest)

quote:

they are going through a professional system...lots of headroom on the systems, plus various sends to the foldback etc enabling a great amount of eq flexibility,

Sorry to be such an idiot. . . what is headroom? You mean lots of volume before distortion kicks in? Or before feedback starts?

What are sends to the foldback? What is foldback, for that matter?

I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to this stuff.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2010 19:32:58