breaking in a new guitar

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at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

breaking in a new guitar

i tried to do a search but couldn't find much practical advice. just a lot of debating.

assuming you do believe that a guitar gets better with age and with more play time, what are some good ways to help the process?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:18:10

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

play it.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:20:46

Leendert

Posts: 153
Joined: May 27 2010
From: WI, USA

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

play it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:23:18

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

Much much heavy Rumba strumming. Hit the **** out of it. That helps the most, the fastest.

And don´t let your birds crap in your guitar...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:25:33

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

And don´t let your birds crap in your guitar

"Birds" in the UK means "girlfriends"

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:28:57

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

And don´t let your birds crap in your guitar...

bird sh!t is not that dangerous. and its small.

also it dries immediately and you can just pick it up and sling it away.
at least budgie sh!t is like that, i don't know about other birds.

yesterday one of my budgies sh!tted on my head while he was sitting there and listening to me playing guitar.
i noticed later while i was in front of mirror. no problem, i just picked it up.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:33:59

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

i've been playing it 5+ hours a day. i told myself i would take a break today... but i failed.... lol.
i think i played rumba on it like once. i guess i should learn more rumbas.

no bird or girlfriend is going near this guitar.

i've been reading some stuff about wolf tones. and they can be avoided by playing chromatic scales loudly and slowly. honestly, i'd rather just play it and not have to worry about it but if this wolf thing is real, i'd like to avoid it.

and the guitar is from mexico, should i leave it out of it's case so it can have more time to adjust to the humidity?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:38:43

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Arash)

quote:

yesterday one of my budgies sh!tted on my head while he was sitting there and listening to me playing guitar.
i noticed later while i was in front of mirror. no problem, i just picked it up.

LOL! i've heard that it's good luck.

my budgies listen from the safety of their cage. they're still too much of pussies to go explore more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:40:44

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

LOL! i've heard that it's good luck.

really? cool. next time i will mix some stool softener with the birdseed, for more luck

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:54:32

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Arash)

quote:

really? cool. next time i will mix some stool softener with the birdseed, for more luck

lol. aw man, i hate the wet stuff.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:56:55

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

i've been reading some stuff about wolf tones. and they can be avoided by playing chromatic scales loudly and slowly.

Some guitars have a bum note or two right around the main resonances of the top. Especially if the top is tuned right on a particular note in the A440 scale. I wouldn't call it a "wolf" note, it's just that the energy is sucked out of the string very quickly, and it might be a tubby, short note.

This might only be interesting to luthiers but...
Take your guitar and play up chromatically on the low E string, E, F, F# etc. but linger on each note and look down at the string. Notice the "envelope" of the string, meaning how the string moves, and how long it keeps moving, how widely it swings, etc.
You will get to one note that has a large envelop, but dies away quickly. Probably somewhere between F and Bb. That is the "wolf note". The same note in other registers might be a bit funny too.
I'd actually be curious as to what it is on your Navarro.

As far as I know, the only way to possibly "fix" that is just play the guitar a lot on all of its notes, as in regular playing. But it's just part of a guitar being a guitar and probably won't ever really go away.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 21:59:08

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I'd actually be curious as to what it is on your Navarro.

i'm going to check it right now!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:04:20

orsonw

Posts: 1942
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

If you like you could always burn money on one of these.

http://tonerite.com/guitar/vmchk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:16:54

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

ok, andy. i just tried it out.
when i get to G it starts acting a little funky. But it doesn't really show until i play Ab.
It doesn't have a larger envelope but it dies more quickly. The sustain isn't as long and there's a strange harmonic/overtone/resonance that shows as the note fades away.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:18:08

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

If you like you could always burn money on one of these.

http://tonerite.com/guitar/vmchk

no, i dont to do it the lazy way like this guy here.

i'll gladly try it out if someone wants to let me borrow or even rent theirs though.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:24:28

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ok, andy. i just tried it out.
when i get to G it starts acting a little funky. But it doesn't really show until i play Ab.
It doesn't have a larger envelope but it dies more quickly. The sustain isn't as long and there's a strange harmonic/overtone/resonance that shows as the note fades away.

Interesting. Yeah it might not have a larger envelope but it will die noticeably quicker. Unless the top is smack inbetween frequencies, which changes slightly with humidity, etc.
I was curious because my Navarro had the top tuned around Bb which is very high. Ab would be too, F#-G is more normal for a flamenco. I'd be curious why he likes these very stiff tops.
You can get the same info by tapping the top on the bridge and listening to the resonance.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:30:16

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

Interesting. Yeah it might not have a larger envelope but it will die noticeably quicker. Unless the top is smack inbetween frequencies, which changes slightly with humidity, etc.
I was curious because my Navarro had the top tuned around Bb which is super, super high. Ab would be too, F#-G is more normal for a flamenco. I'd be curious why he likes these very stiff tops.
You can get the same info by tapping the top on the bridge and listening to the resonance.

that was a cool experiment. now i know a little more about guitar, thanks!
what effect does a stiff top have in terms of sound and playability?
my navarro has a nice bass end but maybe not as round as some other guitars i have tried. as for playability, picado feels much easier on this guitar than my previous one.

will my guitar's main resonance drop over time? like say from Ab to G?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:34:30

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

Well, I don't know if your guitar has a stiff top without checking it out in person. There could be other things going on or the resonance could be hard to find etc.

the picado being easier suggests that this guitar might be less stiff in the bridge area than your old one, or it could just be the string spacing.

It's hard to say for certain what effects a stiff top has, because it also has to do with how the top is graduated and things like that.

I will say that my Navarro (student guitar) had a stiff top and very high, thin fan braces. Opposite of how I build. The bass on that guitar was very good and percussive, but the treble was a little weak. Which you might expect to be the opposite on a guitar with a stiff top, but like I said there is a lot going on there...
I find that thinning the edges of the top actually brings out the treble.

This is all 100% irrelevant btw. There are a million ways to make a good guitar, but guitars are different.

I think the top's main resonance can fluctuate over time by about half a semitone, maybe a semitone.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 22:54:10

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

ok, thanks for all the good info! this guitar building business is very interesting stuff. i think to be a good player, it helps to know a little about guitars. the same way a good racecar driver knows a little about car mechanics.

quote:

This is all 100% irrelevant btw. There are a million ways to make a good guitar, but guitars are different.

i see, so basically, at the end of the day, a good guitar is a good guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 23:28:10

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

Did you btw allready placed new strings on it? And see if the same thing happens again?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2010 23:58:39

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to kozz)

quote:

Did you btw allready placed new strings on it? And see if the same thing happens again?

you mean the effect of breaking in again? yes. there's just so many variables.

i'm on my third set of trebles and second set of basses.

what strings are you using?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 0:19:10

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

i see, so basically, at the end of the day, a good guitar is a good guitar.

I'd say, a guitar you like is a good guitar

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 0:29:14

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I'd say, a guitar you like is a good guitar

oh yeah, i forgot that part.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 0:32:17

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

you mean the effect of breaking in again? yes. there's just so many variables.
i'm on my third set of trebles and second set of basses.
what strings are you using?

Huh? You only have this guitar 1 week?

I've tried different sets, but always comes back to the Conde Hermanos 730. I like them especially after a few weeks when the brilliance is out and you have to work the guitar.

I never use separate basses or strings, but just try a set of new strings and if I like them, then I buy them sometime again. Changing different brands also inspires on how to make to sound the guitar the way you like, I'll never stick to one choice.

It does take a while for the FN to break in. I used to keep it in the case, but now I don't bother anymore. Just want to take the guitar when I feel like, and not make a whole ritual of it.

The biggest thing I noticed is you need to play the guitar without capo for once and a while, it definately sounds better when you place a capo on later on....don't know why, just the mine does.

Are you disappointed at some moments about the guitar?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 1:47:19

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to kozz)

quote:

Huh? You only have this guitar 1 week?

the basses died really quickly. i got a free set of oasis trebles that i tried out but didn't like. so i changed it and the basses too while i was at it.

quote:

Are you disappointed at some moments about the guitar?

no, not at all. i think the basses can develop more. but the way it is, it's still 10x better than my old guitar.

it mics really well too. i played a small theater the other day, and the guitar with my new amp filled the place really nicely.

i think i'll leave the guitar out. for some reason, i think it's still adjusting to the humidity change. i just hope the birds dont get curious about it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 1:56:36

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

i've been playing it 5+ hours a day.

This has been debated at length on the luthiers forum. I think everyone agrees there is an initial settling down period to allow for changes in environment.
But ater that opinion divides.
Some think a long term improvement comes with age and playiing and others think this is a myth.

But one thing seems obvious to me, If you're practisong 5 hours a day your playing will certainly improve, so you'll never be able to tell if the guitar has improved.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 7:46:22

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

My question to this thread would be whether you think that the guitar should always be tuned to 440 for optimal break in or not. I often just tune the guitar relatively not absolutely and i still experience a break in when playing alot.

"If you're practisong 5 hours a day your playing will certainly improve, so you'll never be able to tell if the guitar has improved." - So the more guitar you play, ie the better your technique gets and you know an instrument, the less you are able to tell about its sonic qualities? I would say exactly the opposite: somebody who is "guitar knowledged", both in sound and playing (which you dont get by playing 1hr a week btw), is more able to tell sonic nuances.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 9:45:22

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to at_leo_87)

kevin, it would seem that playing a lot would help me improve. but not so. haha. even though the new guitar is easier to play for the right hand and im getting a feel for it's sweet spot, i'm still stuck at a plateau stage technique wise.

deniz, i think it's a good idea to always be tuned to concert pitch. if not for any other reason but just for the reason that it helps keep your tuning more stable overall.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2010 15:14:21

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: breaking in a new guitar (in reply to XXX)

Its very tempting to get involved in this discussion but, really, its been done, at length , on the luthiers forum.

take a look

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=133139&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2010 8:01:10