Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Interesting radio interview from Frank Evans "El Inglés" who left England in 1964 in his teens, with a yearning to become a professional Matador in Spain.
"To be honest, I've seen worse sights when I worked in a slaughterhouse than I've ever seen in a Bullring."
" I honestly don't believe any animal can be killed "humanely"...
"Anthropomorphism?....all I can say is that when you are actually there and it's either him or you....I can tell you...it doesn't even enter your mind..."
Of course he has to say that because he worked as bullfighter... If I would make money with nuclear-energy..I would also say.. these things are no problem for the next generations...
RE: "El Inglés" Bullfight... (in reply to Doitsujin)
He's not the first 'el ingles'. I was rummaging around the attic and found some old sheets of the Daily Mail from the late 40's and noticed there was an article on Vincent Hitchcock who was an English bull fighter at that time.
In the interview he says that he tracked down Vincent Hitchcock, who was his first teacher. I'm not keen on Bullfighting, but the guy's ambition does seem to embrace a parallel with others who have given up jobs and stuff in the quest of learning Flamenco.
Doit...
Although I don't like Bullfighting, I am surprised by the venom it attracts.
I think we all have become a bit squeamish in our centrally heated houses and apartments with TV and the Internet, the fridge well stocked and a home delivery meal of any kind just a phone call away if you can't be bothered cooking..
Times have changed and it's quite stunning to think that less than 100 years ago, soldiers in battle still relied upon hand to hand combat to the death! Post traumatic stress was called "shell shock" and if you were lucky you got a dishonorable discharge as a coward... If not you were put up against a barn door in foreign field and shot by a firing squad.
Personally, I still feel a bit of a hypocrite condeming Bullfighting while I still continue to eat meat and would rather not think about where it came from.
So I don't.
I used to think perhaps with our raised standards of living, education and time for intellectual pursuit and had hoped at the turn of the century we were generally heading slowly towards a "Star Trek" kind of utopian society...
But in truth, the world today seems a darn sight more violent than I can ever remember as a kid!
When you hear of Mexican drug gangs beheading victims and leaving them at the side of the road, the stoning to death of women and men in the Middle East and remotely controlled "drones" used to kill opponents...the atrocities that go on in Africa of limb amputation, rape and killing... I sometimes wonder if anything has changed at all since 100 years ago!
But yet young folk seem to accept this as "well..that's the world we live in" sorta thing, turn off the news... and are MORE shocked by Bullfighting?
He's not the first 'el ingles'. I was rummaging around the attic and found some old sheets of the Daily Mail from the late 40's and noticed there was an article on Vincent Hitchcock who was an English bull fighter at that time.
Even earlier was an American named Barnaby Conrad, the author of the novel "Matador," who was probably the most famous non-Spanish bullfighter ever. He studied with Manolete, and fought on the same program as Juan Belmonte in 1945.
When you hear of Mexican drug gangs beheading victims and leaving them at the side of the road, the stoning to death of women and men in the Middle East and remotely controlled "drones" used to kill opponents...the atrocities that go on in Africa of limb amputation, rape and killing... I sometimes wonder if anything has changed at all since 100 years ago!
But yet young folk seem to accept this as "well..that's the world we live in" sorta thing, turn off the news... and are MORE shocked by Bullfighting?
Very well said Ron and I totally agree. You may not like "la Corrida" but there are a million worse things in the world. Any anti-bullfighting meat eaters should watch "earthlings" before being morally indignant.
The conditions animals are reared and slaughtered in the meat/leather industry is many times worse than the corrida. Doit, how can a clever guy like you compare Bullfighting to nuclear fallout??
My PM is switched off?? I didnt know it could be switched off!! I'll check my mail.
quote:
You cant rubber-stamp one wrong thing with another one.
No...but its not that simple. Is owning a gun the same as owning a missile? Is lying about having an affair as bad as lying about starting a war? Is it hypocritical to condemn a bullfight while you lick the grease off your fingers from a tortured animal?
I think Rons point is that we in our "civilised society" tolerate things like the human misery, child slavery, gang warfare created by Diamond trading so that civilised people can wear pretty rocks, the hunting to extinction of species (such as siberian wolf) to propagate oil drilling in nature reserves, the mutilation, rape and circumcism of women to satisfy religions etc. and noone says a word. Why with all this going on in the world does a bullfighter dispatching a bull which has been organically reared and will be used for food create so much more emotional response ? ...especially when the millions of animals that we rear for food are generally kept and slaughtered in more cruel conditions?
(ps this isnt so much a pro bullfighting question but more of a statement on the perception of our current "civilised" society)
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
RE: "El Inglés" Bullfight... (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doitsujin Bullfighting is retarded from a viewpoint of an educated person, integrated in a well functioning society of the western world. Thats a fact.
A well functioning society ?
In the USA the feedlot beef industry keeps the cattle caged up and feeds them grain from irrigated land. An ecological nightmare. The grain is grown in the Amazon, or what used to be the Amazon anyway. Cows do not process grain very well but no matter this is to make them fat for hamburger meat, presumably for the intelligent people you are referring to. We are feeding grain, fit for human consumption, to animals in cages, who actually should be eating grass while millions starve.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: "El Inglés" Bullfight... (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
If I would make money with nuclear-energy..I would also say.. these things are no problem for the next generations...
I bet if Germany would stop using nuclear energy tomorrow, and your part as consumer would be to pay 300% more money for your electricity bill, then you would also say these things are not a big problem
I bet if Germany would stop using nuclear energy tomorrow, and your part as consumer would be to pay 300% more money for your electricity bill, then you would also say these things are not a big problem
Thats exactly what I wrote... And I was not talking about any nuclear fallout but the problem where to store the burned down sticks or however you call it. I think at the moment they put em in some old salt mines somewhere... But they wont rot and go away. Thats the example I used.
Man.. you making me completely meschugge ey!
To the other statements as answer to my comment.. My subconscious mind rated all that as "endless arguing without any acceptable result in prospect." With a higher rating I would read through..but...like that.. lets forget about that and close the threat...eh thread.
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread