El Viejan Buleria

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El Viejan Buleria

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Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

El Viejan Buleria

Christ on a cracker, can this guy play, just listen this Buleria. What ya call Cahonyes, pardon the spelling ,and probable a big D..ck as well sorry for the analagy, cant seem to upload so click or cut and paste the link
http://www.geocities.com/davidhilluk/Viejan.mp3

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 12:37:26

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

Mind boggling stuff Dave!
Is it just me, or does anybody here get the feeling that the train is getting faster and faster and they're getting left further and further behind?

Jeez, I wonder what Sabicas would think about that stuff?
What is Flamenco guitar going to be like 20 years from now?

Thanks for posting that, Dave.

Ron

PS. I wonder what "counting system" the guy uses.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 15:24:31

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

Ron, i think this guy stopped counting about 30 years ago. :)

I didnt really get much out of this bulerias. It barely even sounds
like a bulerias to me.

There are some essential properties that i feel are missing.

I dont care for the tone, but that could because the clip is only running
at 32kps.
I'll keep listening and see if i can get my head around it.

Thanks for the clip!!! I love getting new flamenco to listen to!

Toddk

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 16:18:56

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to ToddK)

Just for intrest has anyone tried slowing it down with Amazing slow downer and see if it counts out
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 19:08:54

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to ToddK)

It's all jazz to me! Where's the fun in that?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 19:14:59

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Escribano)

I think the cut SMOKES. This guy has been one of the top Madrid players for a long time. Anyone figure out the tuning? Maybe it's just a lowered e string. As far as counting, I don't think you need to. This guy won't go out-it's not even a possibility. I can't find anything missing. I don't get the jazz thing either. It's puro to me. A train? This guy's a jet. For me to catch this guy I'd have to drop out of a spaceship!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 21:13:24

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

PS. I wonder what "counting system" the guy uses.

So as not to confuse the thread....

The British call this irony LOL!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2004 22:10:44

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

I don't get the jazz thing either

I hear Jazz a lot in younger technocrats like Geronimo for example. Must be my hearing

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 0:08:34

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

Katy said, “Boring”! My take, Cream of Wheat or Ex – Lax would be more “moving”! As for the percussion (baile y palmas) they could use a few lessons. Not our cup of tea. Everyone has a sense of taste. Then again sometimes there are things that make no sense. In the end it is about making a buck. If you can make a buck then you must be “good”!

You want cahones? Try:

http://www.geocities.com/lugosi2k/cahones.html

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 0:56:52

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

Tom,

Good to have you back! We missed you.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 3:43:17

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

Personally, I think it's pretty outstanding. If someone said this was a long lost cut from Paco or Vicente, we would be raving about it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 3:48:51

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

I've heard a lot about David Hill. Doesn't he live in Jerez and teach there as well? (or is it Granada?)

To my ears it sounds very much influenced by Tomatito, Gerardo and possibly Juan Diego. It sounds very much like what many of the "younger" or "newer" guitarists in Jerez are playing these days. I wouldn't question David Hill's compas. He's like Paco and Gerardo, you have to just accept that they are in compas and that you just aren't on the same level to catch it (syncopated to the point of obscurity at times). It seems to be the fashion these days to play around the compas and syncopate the accents extensively. Of course the end result is shmucks like me get lost while trying to count (now is that in 2's?)

I didn't hear too much jazz influence, certainly not as much as Tomatito likes to throw in here and there and nothing like the tangents Gerardo can get into.

There's no question, David Hill can play exceptionally well. Whether or not you like his style really only comes down to taste. I agree, if this had been said to be some previously unknown recording by PdL, I think more people would be raving.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 4:40:15

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Jamey)

I can assure you Iam not the same D Hill from Jerez, although I once met him, at a festival, he was a bit of a rusty player then, used to have a few beers together, but no doubt very good player now having spent years in Spain. Tried e mailing him a while ago, and never replied. I think he will end back up in blighty eventually, as with all those brilialnt guitarists about like Veijan, how can you possibly earn a living. I think he does a bit of English teaching on the side as a lot of Brits do, and I think he speaks French
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 7:59:22

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Patrick)

Pat;

Nice to see a familiar face! :)

To me music is a means to express emotion through sound. The Ancient Greeks developed 8 modes each with the ability to convey a different emotion.

When I was six I began my study of piano. Chopin is said to be the greatest composer for piano. Frantz Liszt was a good friend of Chopin. Even so Chopin said this about his friend’s music, "No brains and many fingers”! You would think that comment would ruin a friendship but no – it was the truth. Take Schubert's Serenade for an example. It is a very powerful piece of music. The Liszt variations add many notes and increase the speed of the piece to the point where it has no emotion – it is all a technical wonder!

What has this to do with the Bulerias given as an example? Well, this piece of music is as Chopin described the music of Liszt, "No brains and many fingers”! Is that an incorrect or bad statement? You be the judge. Some people will love the many notes played and exclaim that this is outstanding! Still a smaller number will question what they have heard. What feeling does the music convey? It reminds me of rush hour at a New York Subway and the Cock Roaches are running in all directions.

Flamenco guitar is a small part of flamenco. However, it does have an attraction for guitarists who appreciate the technical challenges involved and the techniques used. The vast majority of flamenco guitarists have little or no idea of what flamenco is about. This causes problems with those persons for whom flamenco is a way of life.

Life changes and there is little anyone can do about that fact. Flamenco has been changing over the years and I must admit I am in a time warp within the “old school”.
Forty years ago this week I accompanied flamenco dancers Ciro and Rosa Montoya. Over the years I have played accompaniment for many fine dancers and singers from Spain, including Jose Galvan and his family and many others. Accompaniment is not the same as playing a guitar solo, although I have done both.

Anyway, have a safe, happy and healthy New Year!

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 16:17:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Ron.M)

Hey Ron, 25 years ago Tomatito was playing the same way, so don't worry about the future too much. His E string is down to B it sounds like to me, giving depth. An idea Gerardo had years ago too. Acually back in 1980, Mclaughlin used to tune his low E down to A or B and Paco got the idea to use it in flamenco, and of course everyone follows Paco. This guy plays really good, but nothing terribly "modern" to make you worry. But the irony is he works w/ dancers so much I am almost certain he uses the "12 count" business, LOL!

Reading through this thread it sounds like some folks think Viejin is "David Hill". He is not. He is from madrid and works w/ top notch dance groups. He is related to Ramon Jimenez I think, another hot player from Madrid. He is interviewed on Paco's DVD and made a cameo in Paco's group at one point I believe.

Tom,
I personally feel the emotional part of music is a personal thing and not the "truth". It can be different for both the performer and the listener. I feel this guys music and as it is w/ a lot of bulerias and fast tempo tunes, the feeling and expression is rhythmic. It is too bad you don't, but still it is different for each of us.

Happy New year,
Drink a Lot please!

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2004 20:49:29

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

"Reading through this thread it sounds like some folks think Viejin is "David Hill".
It would take some cheek to say it was me, I'm nearly as as good as that, but have a job to do so cant spend 24/7 with my guitar like those guys can . Thats what it all boils down to, no extraordanary talent is needed, only a good ear to pick up ideas, and spending all day messing around with your guitar, if you are lucky enough to be able to do it,and someone else pays the rent, or you live in Spain and can earn a living accompanieng dance classes, everyone could be as good as El Veijan
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2005 17:20:43

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

It would take some cheek to say it was me, I'm nearly as as good as that, but have a job to do so cant spend 24/7 with my guitar like those guys can . Thats what it all boils down to, no extraordanary talent is needed, only a good ear to pick up ideas, and spending all day messing around with your guitar, if you are lucky enough to be able to do it,and someone else pays the rent, or you live in Spain and can earn a living accompanieng dance classes, everyone could be as good as El Veijan
Dave

Thats a good one!
Hey everybody, we can all be Paco, we just have to practice 10 hours
a day!! No talent needed!

Thats hilarious

Almost thought you were serious

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2005 18:17:13

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

I have no problem with this. Good music i think..Nothing strange about it i belive.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2005 20:00:00

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Reading through this thread it sounds like some folks think Viejin is "David Hill". He is not. He is from madrid and works w/ top notch dance groups. He is related to Ramon Jimenez I think, another hot player from Madrid. He is interviewed on Paco's DVD and made a cameo in Paco's group at one point I believe.

Ricardo,
You might already know this, another video that El Viejin can be seen in is 'Flamenco Women'. A nice documentary, not sure if it is still available, but it's worth checking out for those who haven't seen it. The featured dancers are Eva Yerbabuena and Sara Baras. Ramon Jimenez is in that one too as the primary guitarist. Along with Viejin they do some marvelous accompaniment work. On the film credits I noticed they both share the same last names so I wonder if they are related.

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2005 20:39:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: El Viejan Buleria (in reply to Billyboy)

Yes I saw Flamenco Women years ago, but did not realize that was them. Cool, I will revisit it. I just remember Eva giving those guys a real headache about getting all those rhythmic stops. Thats the tough part about accompanying modern flamenco dance, you have to think alot!

I just got a bootleg video of some different guitar players from different Spanish programs on TVE, and there was a mini concert by this Viejin guy. It was very nice, he is a really good expressive player with cool new ideas, but still in the Paco vein. Very nice Rondena, and a Zambra/tangos w/ a low B tuning like this bulerias clip we heard. Great stuff.

ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2005 6:40:20