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caracoles vid!
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: caracoles vid! (in reply to Stu)
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The letras for caracoles have an odd structure (meter). Apparently it used to be an old theater song that flamenco singers added to their repertoire, especially Antonio Chacón. But for guitarists, the distinguishing feature is the part that goes to E-F (didn't you notice that???). Like other cantiñas and alegrías in C, it's also important to use the F chord at the right moments. If you or the singer are not sure about where the E-F part comes in, you'll both be waiting for the other to give the first sign, and somebody might jump the gun. So it's a good idea to have a look at the letra. She sings two of the classic ones, and the E-F part comes in at "Juan León." In the video, the guitarist knows exactly when this is going to happen because he's following the letra. Here are the two letras she sings, taken from one of Chacón's recordings: La gran calle de Alcalá como reluce cuando suben y bajan los andaluces Vámonos,vámonos al café de la Unión en donde para Curro Cúchares el Tato y Juan León (Follow this link to see the letras and hear the audio of the Chacón recording.) I didn't see the YouTube comments, but we all know that videos draw a lot of stupid talk from all kinds of people, including Spanish aficionados. I think she did a fine job. She sounds a lot more flamenca than some of the other girls who've studied at the Cristina Heeren foundation. The teachers there are very good so I don't know why it is, but a number of girls who've studied there have voices that aren't really suitable for flamenco. It's got more to do with the way things are today than with the foundation.
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Date Jul. 26 2010 7:38:25
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: caracoles vid! (in reply to mrMagenta)
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Interesting post mrMagenta, thanks for your thoughts. This is all about preference, so here's my opinion: quote:
It would be difficult if everyone had to sing like el Zambo... quote:
So I'm not saying it is easy, but would still hold that it is possible. Yes, we have to admit the possibility because to deny it would be incoherent, but basically I think everyone has to sing like Luis Zambo (at least those who can't sing like Manuel Agujetas). I agree with your analogy of learning to speak a foreign language without an accent. Pretty much impossible unless you grow up speaking it, in which case it wouldn't be a foreign language. Seriously though, soft sweet voices can work in some styles. One of the great things about flamenco is that nobody is going to excel in every style. Even if someone has the right kind of voice and solid knowledge, the singers from the region where a style comes from are always going to have a special "flavor" that you can't find outside of the region. quote:
I don't think any flamencos in andalucia learn or teach vocal technique this particular way - it's very non-gitano! Of course I don't know exactly what your friend is doing, but I've been surprised many times by the tiny details that most gypsies put into crafting their art, and the fact that they're usually very much aware of these details. There are recordings of Juan Talega teaching cante to an American woman named La Marrurra. You can hear him telling her things like, "Yes, but you have to hold your tongue further back in your mouth." Talega and even apparent "savages" like Manuel Agujetas spent/spend countless hours going over details, matching letras and cantes, making small changes to letras to better fit the melody, etc. Music, perhaps like nothing else, makes it obvious that there are different types of intelligence and that there are many unlikely looking geniuses in the world.
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Date Jul. 27 2010 9:16:09
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: caracoles vid! (in reply to mrMagenta)
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quote:
I'm however sure most people have the anatomical resources to sing flamenco. It would be difficult if everyone had to sing like el Zambo, but I would say the palette of vocal styles and timbres within flamenco is quite broad, certainly enough to accommodate peoples anatomical differences. Would you protest so far? I will protest. As a norman says it is personal preference, but here is my humble opinion. I love singing. I think it is maybe the best feeling in the world to sing and express feeling through singing. Everyone CAN sing that has a voice. Most good instrumental musicians can sing in tune and rhythm. But not everyone has a SINGER'S voice. Hope that makes sense. As a guitarist, I can get a flamenco guitar, but I can't buy a singer's voice box. You have to be born with such an instrument. It is no mystery that a huge percentage of pro guitarists sing, many genre's. In fact they sometimes sing better or know more then the singers they work with. But they know full well their personal "voice" is not the prefered sound, so they stick to guitar. I speak for myself, but observe this happening amongst tons of great guitarists. Before even getting into what makes a FLAMENCO singers voice, I am still stuck at being born with a voice for being a singer... period. Some flamenco guitarists have more a flamenco voice then say a heavy metal singer. But the difference is do they really have a singer's voice? And how can one tell what that is? I don't know, but I know when I hear it. I think it is important for every singer of any style to record and listen to him or herself.... A LOT! Some examples of what I am talking...the beatles were guitarists who sang, not singers to me. Rob halford is a singer...mariah cary is a singer. lady gaga is a piano player that sings. Hendrix, guitarist not a singer... etc. Jewel is a singer but plays guitar. Dylan a harmonica player....Paco sings but is a guitarist. Camaron is a singer that plays guitar a bit. Manzanita a singer that plays guitar WELL. etc. So in the end, if you want to learn to sing flamenco that is cool. But if you want to BE the singer, that is something else, especially for flamenco. For pop or folk music it is not so important a distinction sometimes. Ricardo
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Date Jul. 27 2010 19:55:27
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