For Ron

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For Ron

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Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

For Ron

Hey Ron, as i know that you are huge fan of old LPs, i thought that you might like this channel

http://www.youtube.com/davidllv#g/u

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 2:21:26

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

LOL good find Arash. But why is he clapping to the recording?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 2:30:00

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

quote:

Hey Ron, as i know that you are huge fan of old LPs

Hmmm...I think he needs a bit of EQ on that..

I'm not a special fan of LPs, Arash... it's just that I've got a lot, some of them not available on CD.
I bought a cheap USB turntable last month to save the cost of upgrading some of the other stuff to CD, which no doubt will be obsolete as well in a few more years.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 3:46:49

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

Yeah i know.
Actually, there is some good old and rare stuff on the channel of this guy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 4:15:17

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

Now that's what I calls a viddy-o!
Never heard of this "La Trinitaria".... what a set of pipes! Incredible voice. It sounds so clear even on those scratchy old records. Some cool stuff on there for sure

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 7:35:05

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

Hey, I know they're for Ron, but can I watch 'em too?

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 8:00:40

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

Thanks for posting that Arash, it's something I've been very interested in for the last few years. They're not LPs, they're 78rpm recordings. Some go back to 1908 and others are from the 1950s when the last "pizarra" (slate) recordings were made. The videos are especially cool because of the opening shot of the labels. There are usually two serial numbers there that identify the recordings. One is a catalogue reference and the other, called a "matriz" is the number that was assigned by the recording engineer when the disk was made. Sometimes the companies didn't release recordings immediately, so the catalogue references are practically meaningless, but the "matrices" show the order in which the recordings were made, which can be revealing. For example, there's a cartagenera of La Niña de los Peines where Ramón Montoya accompanies with toque de granaína with capo at fourth fret, the key of D sharp, which is way too high for her. You can hear her straining and, if you listen really close, after the first cante she says to him, "¡Está muy alta la guitarra!" Looking at the matrices, it turns out that this was the first recording of their first session together. After that, he moves the capo down to the first fret, then accompanies without capo, and ends up using toque de Levante with the capo at the fourth fret. It doesn't actually prove anything, but it's interesting because it looks like he thought she was going to sing higher. There's a big difference between D sharp and A sharp; the same as going from por medio to por arriba!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 8:16:23

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: For Ron (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

They're not LPs, they're 78rpm recordings.

When I was a kid, my friend lived in his grandfather's house.
There was a huge wind-up gramophone with a mechanical arm (like the one in the videos) and a huge concealed horn.
It was a substantial piece of furniture of polished walnut and brass and very expensive.

The internal horn terminated in two doors which you would open as required in order to vary the volume.

The Old Boy, (who was very strictly religious ) used to listen to his collection of Classical, Scottish and Sacred Hymns on it and we were warned not to touch it.

However when he was out, my friend's big sister used to get her 78 of the Everly Brothers "Wake Up Little Susie" out from under the carpet where she kept it hidden and we would open the doors to maximum and bop around the room.

He would have killed us if he'd ever found out we were playing the Devil's music on his hallowed equipment and in his home.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 8:47:42

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

Funny you should mention the gramophones...

Flamenco a Palo Seco has a 2 volume CD set called Cilindros de Cera - Primeras Grabaciones de Flamenco

Which means "Wax Cylinders: First Flamenco Recordings"

I was hesitant to download, because if they're anything like Caruso recordings I dug up they might sound terrible...

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 10:26:50

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: For Ron (in reply to Exitao)

One thing the old recording engineers would have liked is the Flamenco voice.

Straight onto wax via a horn, no problemo..

Maximum modulation and hitting the 0dB mark from 10 feet

Unlike those prissy crooners etc...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 10:43:30

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: For Ron (in reply to NormanKliman)

Norman, thanks for the detailed and interesting information.

Ed, hmm.....let me think about it few days.......but till then, the answer is No! for now

Ron, nice story.
I have one short and brutal one with my grandpa (actually my father told it to me, because i don't remember exactly)

My Grandpa had a Radio. A very antique and expensive one at that time. This was his one and only. My father told me that Radio meant the world to him.

So, we lived in 13th floor of an apartment tower at that time.

Don't know how and why (till today this is a mystery for me and for everyone)....... but in a moment where nobody was watching, i took the Radio, went straight to the balcony and thrown it all the way down to the ground LOL . of course, it broke into smallest pieces possible.
I was a kid, but this is kind of Psycho! I really don't know why i did that lol

It was that day where i received my first (the one and only) slap in the face from my grandpa

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 11:27:15

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

quote:

i took the Radio, went straight to the balcony and thrown it all the way down to the ground LOL .

Don't worry Arash..

These days parents and grandparents would be delighted to see such a thing..

They'd think they had a young Rock Star in the making!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 11:33:49

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

My Grandpa had a Radio. A very antique and expensive one at that time. This was his one and only. My father told me that Radio meant the world to him.

So, we lived in 13th floor of an apartment tower at that time.

Don't know how and why (till today this is a mystery for me and for everyone)....... but in a moment where nobody was watching, i took the Radio, went straight to the balcony and thrown it all the way down to the ground LOL . of course, it broke into smallest pieces possible.
I was a kid, but this is kind of Psycho! I really don't know why i did that lol

It was that day where i received my first (the one and only) slap in the face from my grandpa

haha you should have blamed it on the devil as it was playing the devil's music =D

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2010 15:17:36

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

you should have said, Don't worry in a few more years they will be switching radio signals to digital and that would have been useless.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2010 1:27:35

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

Cool, I hope he has lots more, a variety of singers, good find!

Ok aficionados lets get the low down on this common arguement. I mean I argue about this cante a lot with aficionados. Is this cante he sings here Granaina, media granaina, or Malagueñas?

Now I always hear singers do what I consider media granaina as the first letra, then end with malagueña de mellizo, but so many times they just call it "malagueña", and I have many times argued with aficionados who say BOTH letras are malagueñas, just different styles. But when I hear granaina or media granaina by itself (minus the mellizo ending), it's the same melody.

Anyway, HERE Jose Cepero is singing something I understand by the record label is supposed to be a mix of the two cantes in one ( and he does 2 letras the same style), but it SOUNDS to me like he starts off like a fandango naturales, then it turns into the typical "media granaina" melody so I think of it, (yet many aficionados might call "malagueña"). So what are opinions???

http://www.youtube.com/davidllv#p/u/25/Z-lCm6e4oy0

PS, how do you guys feel about the picado fest there Borull is doing in the intro and outro.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2010 6:55:20

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: For Ron (in reply to Arash)

For a person like me who doesn't know much about cante it's cool that many of the letras in these recordings are familiar to me, especially those of tomas pavon and nina de los peines. In the solea Tengo el gusto tan colmao for instance, he sings the letra that Felix recorded for the cante accompaniment challenge. So, the question is, were these letras 'trad. standards' for Tomas Pavon, or did he originate these (or someone for him)? Is 'Al Gurugu' a Tangos first sung by Nina de los Peines? And is it considered traditional material today?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2010 7:29:29

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: For Ron (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo: I think it's his media granaína. He didn't really record any malagueñas, at least not in these old recordings. A lot more fandangos and granaínas. I don't particularly like his picado, mostly because he uses the same ones on many different recordings (the one on Manuel Torre's taranto for example), so it gets a little tiring after a while. But on a few of his recordings there are some very original and well-developed picados.

mrMagenta: Lots of those letras are in Demófilo's book from 1886 and were anonymous at that time. Some great recordings from the 1970s took letras from that book. I don't know about the history of the Gurugú tango, but it certainly is considered traditional today.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2010 9:09:58

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: For Ron (in reply to NormanKliman)

Thanks Norman. You are a well of knowledge

It has probably been asked before, but do you know any bilingual collection of traditional letras that contains many of these commonly sung ones etc? It would be a treasure for us that don't have strong spanish language skills.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2010 11:21:59

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: For Ron (in reply to mrMagenta)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrMagenta

Thanks Norman. You are a well of knowledge

It has probably been asked before, but do you know any bilingual collection of traditional letras that contains many of these commonly sung ones etc? It would be a treasure for us that don't have strong spanish language skills.

Maybe Norman knows...

I haven't seen any sites with translations. I know that at the old school forum (which seems a bit comatose at the moment), there was a thread where they were doing translations.

If you want to start a collection, feel free to make a letras translation thread here; I think I'm not alone in being interested in that kind of challenge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2010 1:29:39