becoming a teacher

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becoming a teacher

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fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

becoming a teacher

Hi everybody,

I live in a small town in Central America and nobody here has the slightest idea what Flamenco is. Its also a tourist town and the low season is just around the corner which, financially speaking, is a very bad time of the year.

Now Im just beginner still, but obviously there are things that I can show somebody about Flamenco guitar and the music in general. So long story short, Ive started advertising guitar lessons and had my first student yesterday.

My aim is more towards rumbas, since I know thar more people will want to learn that style, but we will see how things go.

So I guess Im wondering if anybody has any advice for me. I know that the whole "am I good enough to teach" thing has been discussed before, and I must admit that I do think about that, but I have a lot of patience and enjoy teaching...so what the hell!

Any thoughts??

Thanks in advance.

Vic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2010 14:31:03

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

Teaching flamenco to somebody who has no idea what it is and doesn't at least have a PDL album is extremely difficult. The passion and love of the music really has to be there for the student. You have to find out if a student really wants to learn all the structures and accompanyment of song and dance or just play solo, still the student has to aquire a certain amount of knowledge of the structures to even play the solo pieces correctly.

Knowing what to include or leave out with which type of student just takes a lot of teaching experience. Of course you want to teach competently, but really most students don't necessarily want to go pro and put a higher priority on having fun.

Of course for beginners you could just use a teaching method for example from Juan Martin or Oscar Herrero, but eventually the student might ask him or herself what they need you for

Teaching well is a talent, some can just do it better than others. Most of my students are far enough along with the help of books to tell me what they need help on and that's where I feel most comfortable as a teacher.

Rumba is quite a bit easier to teach if the student already has the basic chords down. Gerhard Graf-Martinez' book "Gypsy Guitar" is a great reference for structuring a teaching method.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2010 15:29:38

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to John O.)

How strange, I was only thinking of this yesterday.

I have been teaching "general guitar" for a while now but have never even considered actually teaching flamenco.

I simply dont feel qualified enough....as you say..we could definitely teach something....the stuff we know and are competent at (however small) would be possible to teach. infact i say that but i doi teach one of my close friends bits of falsetas and technique here and there (for free) and she loves it.

in the simpsons marge considers giving piano lesson to supplement the family income and when shes challenge by lisa that she cant play the piano, she reasons that all she has to do is to stay one lesson ahead of the student.

quote:

The passion and love of the music really has to be there for the student. You have to find out if a student really wants to learn all the structures and accompanyment of song and dance or just play solo

when I started learning i didnt know the answers to all of those myself!! I do know that playing for dancers/singers didnt appeal to me because i had no knowledge of it...but as i learned more those passions developed and solo guitar was no longer the only goal.

so all that aside......what if someone is a great and gifted teacher and his/her students are eager to learn (and passionate)....at what point could one be considered qualified enought to teach flamenco guitar???

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2010 0:59:34

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to Stu)

quote:

in the simpsons marge considers giving piano lesson to supplement the family income and when shes challenge by lisa that she cant play the piano, she reasons that all she has to do is to stay one lesson ahead of the student.

that makes perfect sense!

i'm considering teaching too and one of the things im worried about is what if they dont want to learn real flamenco, but instead want to learn stuff like jesse cook and ottmar liebert?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2010 3:52:48

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

Thanks for the input guys. I had a student the other day and one coming later on. Both have never touched a guitar before, so that makes things quite easier. Im going to be making up my own study sheets with tabbed chords and such.

As far as the flamenco part of it is concerned, I agree with Stu in the fact that I personally had no idea what I wanted out of flamenco; I just wanted to make those funky sounds! And i seriuously thought that it wouldnt be too difficult...boy was I wrong!

I think that ethically speaking I can offer beginner classes with the idea that I am a beginner myself. I mean, just with technique: Alzapua, tremolo, arrpegios, picado, rasgeos, thumb work, etc., and a few excersises for each one makes for a good half a dozen lessons I think. maybe less, I dont know, but then on top of that start throwing in some falsetas and different palos. I think I can morally stand to give a good dozen lessons, minimum, no problem.

Now if a young PDL shows up at my doorstep, trust me in saying that Ill give the money back an ask him to take me under his wing!

By the way, Im only charging $10 per hour. This is the going rate here and some have even said its a bit expensive. But otherwise they would have to drive 3 hours to the capital to find another flamenco teacher.

Vic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2010 9:29:21

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to Stu)

quote:

when I started learning i didnt know the answers to all of those myself!!

You're right about that, a student can develop the liking, but if you lend them a CD and they don't take much interest then it's best to stick to solo.

There are actually quite a lot of students of mine who want to learn cante accompanyment and have never even met a singer. They're stuck with my horrible voice during the lessons, I don't know why they put up with it

Starting out as a teacher is a bit of trial and error. It's well enough if you spark the interest of the student to take a bit of initiative. A good player is self-taught with the help of a teacher. Most adults don't have time to practice too much, if you can get them hooked on flamenco with your enthusiasm you've already done quite a lot.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2010 11:46:36

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

I have a taught a lot of complete beginners who have never played guitar before. Of course you can just teach basic chords etc. for cheaper than the competition.
If they have some vague interest in flamenco but don't know what it is at all, as most don't, leave 5-10 minutes at the end of every lesson for listening to your favorite records, especially cante. If they don't like what they hear it'll scare em away right quick.

But some will be genuinely interested. Stress the importance of finding good quality flamenco to listen to.
Be prepared for people to come and go. To be perfectly honest, fully 90% of people who think they want to learn flamenco give up (at least temporarily) within a few weeks when they find out what it is. We here are the 10%

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2010 11:57:06

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

I teach "general guitar" but I always push flamenco playing. The catch is- I dont tell the student what the style is called until they've shown some promise. It helps that I mostly teach kids.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2010 18:23:17

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

So in teaching "general guitar", I have been looking online at some course outlines and Im trying to figure out the best way to go about this. I have another absolute beginner tomorrow.

Whats the best approach for first timers? I have started by giving some basic description of the guitar, string notes and numbers, correct position to hold the guitar, then learning the basic chords: A, Am, B7, C, D, Dm, D7, E, Em, F, G, G7. I have then shown some basic up and down strumming and focusing on the 1234 count so that they get that down from the get go.

Now, Im not too sure if i should go into major scales and how chords are made and that kind of stuff, or maybe go right into right hand techniques like arpegios and picado.

What is a typical format that you guys use? I would like to make the that the students get their moneys worth!

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Vic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2010 18:38:45

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

quote:

I have another absolute beginner tomorrow.

The first few lessons should cover tuning the guitar, open position chords and open string note names. A simple book with single note melody lines and basic chord diagrams can help the student learn to read music and chord charts in the open position. You can also go into the different types of guitar and guitar music. That could take you through a month's worth of lessons. It's a good idea to play more complicated stuff that you like and do well. This might motivate them to continue their studies.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2010 19:44:24

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

ok, cool. thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 9:40:27

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

just teach
.....mmm whatever ....trumpet science , or what ever the skill so diffeerent............

but if your cool and kind all is ok, the macho stuff leave it out...........its a diff ball game, .

do you want teache guitar flamenco or other?

and your goals.

from a teacher...

be open minded thats all , and care

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 9:44:24

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

ummm, what??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 9:54:42

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

good point,

well be good persons equal good teacher !no need for 250 bpm scales, darn wish i could

that was the point sorry ra de da, tired to day

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 10:07:34

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

points being .

u want be teacher .

get qualified .(enrol in course)

you want be guitar teacher flamenco, flamingo teach all things, you want to bw flamenco teacher cool............have rich parents who can support u .

education is good

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 10:09:34

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

haha, ok, I think I get your point...I think

I just want to make some extra cash and do it right. Ill teach whatever I can to whoever. If they want to learn flamenco, then great...Ill teach what I know and focus on correct technique and set them up well for the future. Ill teach the basics for the palos that I know.

I dont beleive in taking someones money and not providing decent lessons. I have paid for that and it doesnt interest me!

Vic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 10:15:30

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

oh sorry Fe victor,
im hopeless chat on this forum.

point was yeah intial goal , yeah man yeah ......................

but teaching yes its a great thing do , and i guess these times you need to have the qualifications

for teaching guitar as mentioned just be nice , nun of this im the best in the world stuff, just be nice then thats it !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 10:33:01

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

Victor,

People take other people's money for getting in touch with the spirit world for them, or for being a personal shopping assistant.

If you can show a beginner the basics of rasgueado and pulgar etc and answer some basic points in Flamenco compás, then you have something to teach.

If a beginner in Flamenco guitar goes to Paco de Lucia himself...how much can Paco show him?

And will he be any better than anybody else due to having basic lessons from him?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 11:04:58

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

Thats true Ron...and I bet that Paco would actually confuse more than he would teach due to his insane knowledge and technique, right??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 12:33:21

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

Actually I've heard Paco is a really bad teacher. I believe most quick lerners with exceptional talent are since it's difficult for them to judge what a student needs to know.

He probably can't remember any of the first lessons he got when he was 4

It's like trying to teach the language you grew up speaking without really studying it.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2010 22:56:23

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

I totally agree with John O.

The fact that one speaks a language or plays an instrument very well does not necessarily qualify them to teach. I have taken lessons from both not-so-good and brilliant teachers. An experienced teacher assesses the student’s grasp and helps to build a gradual good knowledge and technique.

Different people understand things differently and it really helps to know how to present things to different people.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 0:22:22

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to Argaith)

Yes but, continuing with the analogy of a foreign language, they may not be able to explain why something's right, but they immediately know when something's wrong. For example, on the guitar it'd be like efficient placement of your left thumb, or the right way to do alzapúa, if you know what I mean. Sometimes you see someone struggling and you know exactly what the problem is.

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 2:01:05

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

Sometimes you see someone struggling and you know exactly what the problem is.

That's exactly what I meant and this does not come without experience.

To sum it up, I believe that in order to teach well, the teacher should have a good knowledge of the subject and have worked out a good teaching method.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 2:27:27

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to Argaith)

You're describing an ideal teacher, of course that's right. I'm just pointing out that a natural, someone who's been doing it since they were small, may be able to teach a few things as well. A student will get better results from someone who knows how to present things, as you say, but a pro guitarist might have more developed playing skills than a teacher, and would be able to explain (or at least show) some things that the teacher couldn't do. In any case, I'm not disagreeing with you.

In relation to the thread, if there aren't any teachers in your area, and if you tell students that you're a beginner, it's not like you're going to be deceiving anyone. Let them hear you play before you agree on the classes.

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 3:07:44

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to NormanKliman)

I had a "bad" teacher. He would show me something, I would learn it, I'd come in the next week and he'd say "no, no, no" you're doing it all wrong, and he would have changed the falseta on me!! and he would claim that it was how it was before. lol. He would refuse teach me certain techniques etc.

However the inspiration and education that I got from watching him play was invaluable, because he was an incredible artist.
that teaching style is certainly not for everybody, and for my students I gladly write out tab, take it slow, use patience and encouragment, adapt to their learning style blah blah blah.
But I know I'm not as good a teacher as my teacher even though he broke every rule in the book. lol
That's just me.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 4:42:37

Ricardo

Posts: 14832
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

My ideas sometimes go against the norm. Well often they do actually.

Anyway, I remember the movie "The Karate Kid" and the message there was the reason the bully kids had gone astray was because of their teacher teaching them bad things or the "wrong" way. "no such thing as bad student...only bad teacher". A similar message there in Star Wars with the whole dark side problem.

Ok, so over the years I have come to develop the exact opposite opinion. My reasoning is that a bad student can not learn, no matter how good the teacher is or tries. A bad student is one who is either closed, doesn't really care, distracted, looking for something they THINK they NEED to learn, or thinks he or she knows something about it already and is not willing to take in contradicting info.

But a GOOD student is able to process info given, good or "bad" and extract what is needed and disregard that which is not. Even if a teacher is condescending, mean, or not willing to show things, a good student can still get something they may need from that person. Good student doesn't need it all on a silver platter, or mapped out perfectly. A good student should realize if a teacher is making him or her go only ONE route, that all others are wrong and other teachers no good etc, well, they should have the presence of mind to realize that is not true and the world does not work that way, while at the same time not totally giving up on what this teacher has to offer.

For me, one of the best teachers I have ever had was Paco de Lucia. And no formal lesson, just from watching his videos and live shows. All the technique details, musicality, accompanying, improvising, performing, composing etc etc, is RIGHT THERE. And then interviews fill in some gaps and questions. Of course it is not the same as having a one on one lesson with a live person, but anyway, my point is we have to be good students in order to learn anything. That's way there is not one teacher or method who has a studio where EVERY student is a maestro.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 6:58:19

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

looking for something they THINK they NEED to learn,

Put's me in mind of my "Julian Bream" moment with Paco Peña...

He was giving me a tip on the hand position for Flamenco picado.

In my youthful enthusiasm, I asked "How does Paco de Lucia play that really fast picado?"

He gave me the same look he gave to Bream and said "I've no idea...ask HIM...I can only show you what I play..."

(Very logical is Peña...Don't ask stupid questions..

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2010 8:43:52

herrythakur

Posts: 1
Joined: Nov. 2 2011

RE: becoming a teacher (in reply to fevictor)

For becoming a good teacher first you have to understand the work or job of a teacher.This is high level and devotional job that you have to for others.

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AIEEE 2012

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2011 6:34:43