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RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to p00nani)
Hello!
Laminated wood would be a "sandwich" of woods. Let's say the back of a flamenco guitar could be either a solid piece, a "mirror" like cut of a piece of wood. It could also be a laminated piece, from let's say 3 or 4 different pieces of Sycamore. Aesthetics, would be one difference. Some say the quality of tone, the way vibrations travel through the wood, etc. etc.
The COST of the wood is one mayor difference, as it is easier to gather enough cut outs to make a lamination, but it is not necessarily a bad thing. I believe that for example, José Romanillos, one the most well known and respected luthiers would rather use a Laminated spruce top of the best quality, as opposed to a solid top of good spruce.
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to rodpacheco)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rodpacheco
I believe that for example, José Romanillos, one the most well known and respected luthiers would rather use a Laminated spruce top of the best quality, as opposed to a solid top of good spruce.
I find this statement very hard to believe. Can you provide a reference to where you found this information?
Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to jshelton5040)
quote:
ORIGINAL: jshelton5040
quote:
ORIGINAL: rodpacheco
I believe that for example, José Romanillos, one the most well known and respected luthiers would rather use a Laminated spruce top of the best quality, as opposed to a solid top of good spruce.
I find this statement very hard to believe. Can you provide a reference to where you found this information?
I also find that assertion hard to believe. I could understand if he wanted to use laminates for the sides (for increased stiffness) or even for the back, but not for the top.
I've heard of some top luthiers (Smallman included for classical guitars) using laminated sides but not for the tops or backs.
Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to p00nani)
Romanillos is VERY fussy about the spruce for his tops and only uses split billets to minimise runout. Definitely no laminates
Some prominent luthiers are using laminated sides (but just 2 layers in the same direction not a 3 ply)
Laminated backs are generally less responsive and are avoided by most non factory builders except for the Smallman guitars which have a thick domed laminate back which is intended to act as a rigid reflector
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to jshelton5040)
Hi there, Fellows!
This is a series of 4 videos found in youtube, posted by guitargourmet, from his interview with Romanillos. Really Really REALLY cool stuff he talks about!! very reassuring and humbling. Enjoy and LISTEN to the entire series after you hear his opinion on HIS use of LAMINATED TOP and BACKS!
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Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to p00nani)
The top of my '73 Romanillos is definitely solid spruce.
When I ordered a spruce/Brazilian classical from the world famous Paracho luthier Abel Garcia in December 2006, he showed me some wood Romanillos had given him when Garcia took Romanillos' course. Garcia said Romanillos told him the wood was from early in his career. It certainly resembled the top of the '73 Romanillos. According to the grain pattern, it appeared to come from the same tree, a nearby cut. Definitely solid wood.
I left the choice of top to Garcia. He used a finer grain solid piece with lots of 'silk'. The guitar is in the same class as the '73 Romanillos, and it's not played in yet.
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to p00nani)
Just for the record, plywood = laminated wood. When most people hear the word plywood, they think "cheap".
Plywood is actually quite ancient. Archeologists found laminated wood in the tombs of Egyptian pharaohs, and I don't believe it was used because pharaohs were trying to trick-out their tombs "on-the-budget". Some makers go through extra effort to make their very, very expensive plywood. I am sure they are not doing it to save time or money. It is done for other design and sound considerations.
By the way, nomex-top guitars are, in a way, laminations of wood with a paper honey-comb spacer in between. So, one can argue it is a high-tech plywood of sorts.
Not my style, but I can see why some makers go after lamination technique.
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Peter Tsiorba Classical-Flamenco-Guitars tsiorba.com
Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to rodpacheco)
quote:
This is a series of 4 videos found in youtube, posted by guitargourmet, from his interview with Romanillos
That has got to be one of the worst films I have seen for a while - the subject talking off to the side to someone we cannot see whilst the cameras decide where they should be. You can even hear the tripod hit something as it is moved at 00:17 and why move a tripod?
It looks like a two camera shoot but the colour balance is all wrong (see 2:57 and 5:16 for example). Why two cameras for something so simple? It's not like he is doing anything. Utter rubbish. I would never let that escape the edit.
Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to rodpacheco)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rodpacheco Enjoy and LISTEN to the entire series after you hear his opinion on HIS use of LAMINATED TOP and BACKS
I had seen this interview before.
I believe he is talking about using four to five sections of solid wood for the top (whereas a bookmatched solid top would be using only two section of solid wood). I have seen this build method used before. Luthiers argue that it is one way of using the best cuts of wood to cover 100% of the soundboard.
That is why the following segment of that video addresses the question of whether additional glue joints can affect the quality of the sound. With a bookmatched top, there is only one joint. Build a top of four pieces and you now have three joints. Romanillos himself cannot answer the question and leaves it to the player to judge.
It is not the same as a laminated top which uses multiple layers of thin wood to form one piece.
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: Hello can someone explain me wha... (in reply to p00nani)
Torres used three-piece edge glued tops--not laminated--maybe as many as four. I believe Romanillos, in his book, theorizes this was because wide enough pieces for a two-piece top were unavailable, for a relatively cheap guitar.
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