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Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
Cristina Heeren - intensive guitar i...
So I'm graduating from college this year, and while I might be able to convince grad schools to let me have a year off, I'll at least have the summer and a return to Andalucía is definitely in the plans. So my teacher and some others have recommended to me the Cristina Heeren month-long intensive guitar course:
and it looks really exciting. Has anyone done it, or got any advice, tips, thoughts, etc.? I'd love to know what foro members think of it - and if anyone else is going to be doing it too!
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
Alright, two things:
1) Does anyone know of similar programs (e.g., Carmen las Cuevas in Granada) in other cities that they can compare to this? Am wondering if this is the best intensive program there is, or if there are comparable ones in other places like Jerez or Granada.
2) Is anyone else thinking of doing this and wants to look for a place to live? A foro apartment might just be the greatest thing ever
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
Ramparts, I did this course in, was it '03? A while ago... :)
If you search this forum, you may find some comments I posted while I was there.
My overall experience was that it was good. It is probably especially good if you don't have a good flamenco scene where you live. I was taught a bunch of falsetas (tangos, alegrias, the entire Panaderos Flamencos), some scales and licks, and a course on the history of flamenco (taught in Spanish). All the students in my class except for one were from Northern Europe or the US (one Spaniard).
There was no experience playing with dancers and maybe one class period devoted to accompanying a CD. There were dancers as part of the course but they were segregated and it took a lot of work to find them :)
The best part of it was hanging out with other guitarists and seeing shows. I saw about 30 shows, I think, during the 6 weeks I was in Spain. Some of my friends attended the Paco Pena school, and it was good to bounce ideas off of them. The teachers are no slouches, either--Eduardo Rebollar accompanied Chocolate and Jose Menese during my enrollment (in outside gigs) and another guy was accompanying Arcangel (can't remember his name, Miguel something).
Maybe the second best part was they screwed up and changed the date, delaying it by a week, _after_ I paid, and never told me. So I was in Spain an extra week, not knowing anyone. They compensated me by having Tino Van Der Smaan, one of the teachers, give me private lessons all that week.
I don't know how it compares to other courses, but you could probably do a lot worse.
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
Thanks Val! I'll definitely give her a ring.
I'd appreciate any more reviews from folks who have done stuff at the Fundación, especially the intensive summer program :) Or suggestions for other things to do for a summer that are equally intense.
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
Figured I'd bump this one. Anyone have thoughts on the Cristina Heeren? I've looked at other ones but they're either more than I can afford (like El Macareno's) or not nearly as intensive as Cristina Heeren's (like Taller Flamenco in Sevilla; a little cheaper but about 1/4 of as much lesson time per day!). I'd be interested to hear other options or people's experiences with the Cristina Heeren summer program.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
Maybe this will be useful to you. Here's what it was like for me studying with El Entri in Madrid:
-Initially we had class 3 times a week, two hours on monday, wednesday and friday. Recently they upped that to two hours a day, six days a week -Almost every class there was a singer or dancer brought in for us to work with, of a high level, except when Entri went through some poorer periods when he couldn't afford to pay them, and then sometimes his gitano friends would just come in and jam with us -They had juergas pretty often, not even for the benefit of the students as much as the fact that Entri and his crew just really like to have juergas -The students are more like Entri's family than students. It's like everyone is a big crew. I hung out with Entri for many hours just doing random ****, eating at his house, went to his church, drove around Madrid, etc. Teaching flamenco is that dude's life, he has never done anything else -For most of the time I was with Entri, I was the only foreigner in the room, or maybe there would be one british or japanese guy who was passing through. Most of the students were gitanos, followed by spaniards -The classes had all levels, from little gitano kids who could barely hold the guitar, to guys like Jonny Jimenez who can play anything. Entri has a way of teaching everyone at once that you kind of have to see to understand
Entri was always extremely friendly to me, as were most of the other people.
Entri will be hard on you though, and he expects you to be studying what he gives you outside of the classes.
The purpose of his school is basically to take people at various levels and turn them into professional players who could work at Tablaos around Madrid. Also for him, teaching is a very personal, almost religous mission
_____________________________
Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
WHAAT?!
watch your word. that wasnt a smart-ass comment. you know very well the topic of culto, so it was just a neutral question from my point of view. there is a chance that this is not a typo. cool down.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to XXX)
Yeah Deniz,
Lets not forget, before you edited and watered-down and moderated your comment as a general interest in the culto, your post simply read...
quote:
His own?
So that's why I replied in they way I did.
I believe this is a big enough Forum for everybody to express their views so long as they are not being bombastic or spamming.
I hate 2 word smart replies to somebody's sincere post.
That's all.
I'm not jumping on you or anything Deniz, but maybe folk like me and other long term members can handle the rough banter, but it's using it on the newer guys that makes some folk claim we are an inner-circle of snobs.
If you feel like saying something smart then just call me a stupid C*NT or something, 'cos I don't care.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)
quote:
The purpose of his school is basically to take people at various levels and turn them into professional players who could work at Tablaos around Madrid.
This sounds really good but you have to tell me from you position of Entri's student how many people had real success and play flamenco for money? 1 from 50? Canot imagine that Entri's school is somethig like factory to flamenco-professionals
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
I dont know I ask myself too, but beeing sceptical is sometimes realy healthy, for your money at the first place. Just dont like the idea paying thousands of E for few months in these factories while you can study tonne of material from internet and have, lets say only 1 private lessons in week or when you have some really important question to maestro.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
I agree with michall - I also wonder how much genuine value people can get from such intense study at these schools.
I know I am a bit of a slow learner, but I found that one hourly lesson from a very good teacher/player every 10-14 days covering say 3 significant topics in that hour gave me enough material, thoughts and ideas so that I had something well practiced and polished to show the teacher when I went back again.
Even with weekly lessons, I found that I hadn't really got the value out of the lesson, and wasn't practiced enough by the next lesson.
The other thing is the value of sleeping in the learning process (not during the lesson ;-) . I mean the brain just goes into overload unless you sleep and let your brain make the right connections to soak it all in to your subconscious, so you 'feel' it as well as think it.
It also 'takes time, you know', weeks and months, for your muscles to learn to respond properly when learning flamenco, so as not to strain / damage them.
Never mind the cost aspect of it all..
On the other hand, just being down there, for the social side, with lots of like minded people.. the whole scene must be a great experience.
Anyway, each to their own. I'm going to take Pimientito's tip, and just find a good guitarist, call them up, ask them if the do lessons, and do one 35 eur lesson every 1-2 weeks.
But it would be interesting to hear from others who have done these intensive courses to see how they have done.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Adam)
quote:
This sounds really good but you have to tell me from you position of Entri's student how many people had real success and play flamenco for money? 1 from 50? Canot imagine that Entri's school is somethig like factory to flamenco-professionals
It most definitely is...
Dude the very way I found El Entri was by going around tablaos in Madrid and talking to guitarrists after shows. It seemed like almost every one had been one of his students.
Entri definitely teaches a level of playing that is basically the definition of professional flamenco guitar... whether you actually choose to turn that into a career of course is up to you.
_____________________________
Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to michall)
I tend to agree with michall as well, in that you can only learn at your own rate regardless of how many hours of lessons you get per week.
However, it must be a shot in the arm to spend so much time amongst top players and professionals. Something must rub off too.
Everybody is entitled to spend their dough the way they want to and clearly guitarrista finds he is getting value for money.
On the subject of "Flamenco Factory", the way that I read it is that the cañoroto school is more hardcore in trying to teach the practical things a player needs to play professionally, rather than just catering for foreign hobby guitarists and ethnomusicologists etc who want to learn more about Flamenco in general?
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M I hate 2 word smart replies to somebody's sincere post.
Aha, good.
(words in brackets dont count ok? well i was just asking for clarification, since i couldnt figure out what HIS CHURCH means. but maybe i am to unreligious to get the meaning? sorry if that was offensive, i dont care if somebody has his own church, so even if thats the case, i wouldnt ridicule such a thing, because, hell, it doesnt even interest me. )
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
the way that I read it is that the cañoroto school is more hardcore in trying to teach the practical things a player needs to play professionally,
That's it in a nutshell. The first day I walked in there there was a dancer in my face and Entri was walking over to me, while still playing his own guitar, shouting "un dos TRES cuatro cinco SEIS seite OCHO....
To be honest, no one at the cañoroto school even knows what the word "ethnomusicology" means, or cares. If you go there, you will be playing millions of escobillas, hours of technique, and clapping out compas to every palo until you can do it right. You will play for singers whether you feel comfortable with it or not, and in the middle of the class Entri will happily pause everything to teach you a falseta over and over again until you play it right.
It's intense, and if you're looking for a more touristy travel experience it's probably going to piss you off. It pissed me off many, many times, but hey, it was what I chose to do with my life.
_____________________________
Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.
RE: Cristina Heeren - intensive guit... (in reply to michall)
quote:
paying thousands of E
To give you a more specific number, I paid Entri 300 euros a month to study with him, and I treated it like a full time job. I was with him about 9 months of the year, so that's 2700 euros a year. In fall of 09 my rate got lowered to 200 euros a month and the class hours doubled as he opened his own school.
_____________________________
Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.
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