Rasgueado question...

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ChurroRocks

Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 28 2010

Rasgueado question...

What would you say is the "normal" time it would take to learn the rasgueado technique?

I think I learned it unnaturally fast.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 10:23:20

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

With a bit of practice everyday, I'd say it takes your body about 2 months to physically adapt to the basic movements and then from there to infinity to perfect the technique in a way that it becomes musically appropriate with all the right nuances dialed in.

Why, how long have you been trying it and which type of rasgeo have you learned?

When I've got it dialed in like this I'll be happy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 10:53:39

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

quote:

What would you say is the "normal" time it would take to learn the rasgueado technique?

I think I learned it unnaturally fast.

Ok, let us see your rasguados. ;.)

There are many different rasguados each one takes its time to develop and when you can hit em, it still doesnt mean that you can use them correctly. Rasguados go hand in hand with compas feeling which you also need to develop. If you have both fluently with spontaneous improvisation, than you mastered rasguado IMO.

For me it took some years to get rasguados + compas into my body. And I played 5 days a week every day 2-4 hours for dance. I think that is an essential absolutely necessary aspect in learning rasguados and compas. I saw many guitar-players who never played for dance but have all the techniques of the flamenco guitar more or less fluently. They all lacked compas without exceptions.. I think I can see immediately when looking at rasguados, if one got experience with playing for dance or not. 99,9% of the people who never played for dance completely fail rasguados.
Well,..there are of course also people who played a long time for dance but cant use rasguados... These people would be the "false negative" fraction in my judgement.
I doubt that there are any guitarists who learned it perfectly without playing for dance. Thats simply not possible regarding my experience.

Why do I write that? I made also some experiances with my own playing... Around 2-3 years ago I thought..Man...Im playing good. And today I watch my videos..and I know.. no sir..you didnt play good. You had the feeling you were a complete player but it took time to understand that you are still a beginner. Thats no joke.. Dont fool yourself. Stay objective.
Another examly is a friend of mine. He always played a Granainas of Paco Serrano. He one time said..when Im warmed up, I can play it 100% accurate perfectly. And he belived in his words. To be honest, it was very bad how he played it. Warm and even worser with cold fingers. But in his head it was perfect.
Thats a difficult thing to rate your own playing. IMO its almost not possible except you film yourself and watch it after some time. Than you see the truth.

Flamenco is very hard..so fasten your seatbelt. The truth will hit you hard to the ground in most of the cases.

So.. How did you learn rasguados?

Back to your question..I think it takes too long..

I woulnt try to learn it again if I would know from the beginning on how difficult it is..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 12:19:00

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to Doitsujin)

I'm content with my progress.
But I am learning - I have learned nothing!

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Visit me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRaGz6Lf-Uz0HxUv-dGQFLQ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 12:46:26

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

If you are a natural maybe a couple of years. If you start young you will have an advantage. If you start older, it will take 5 to 10 years to get a few rasgueos under your fingers sounding decent and you will always improve as time goes by. IMHO and from my personal experience. YMMV.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 12:57:26

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to Doitsujin)

My rasgeados suck, just like most techniques but im working on it.
bursche has not played for dance and can play also rasgeados i think.
Anything that motivates you to practice more is good. It doesnt need to be dance imo. You can also have a teacher/guitarrist. Or even just learn from books etc. Just do it again and again (like with any technique). Whether you do this at home or in a dance studio does not make a difference imo.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 13:35:55

Spencer

Posts: 34
Joined: Mar. 27 2008
From: Bargara Beach, Australia

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

I've been working at rasguados for three years. Usually about five hours playing a week. I only started playing guitar when I was 45.

I used to think I could play a basic four finger eamii rasguado, but now I know for sure that I can't - I was playing the dreaded "shhrammm." (picked up from Juan Martin course).

Graf Martinez showed me the error of my ways, and now I am just beginning to feel that I am getting competent at the 3 finger amii.

Now trying to learn the eamii again, but this time with individual finger control, so that each is distinct.

I have had one lesson. My teacher is almost 300kms away, so can't go too often, but that one lesson showed me how little I know and how much harder it is to teach and assess my own playing and progress.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 13:55:48

bhandras

Posts: 26
Joined: Dec. 23 2009

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

As I'm just a beginner (about 10 months) all I can say that what you can achieve relatively fast is the rasgeado which will not frustrate you in a way that you wish you never touched the guitar :)

Practice rasgeado every day even if you don't have a guitar with you, on the table top. Do it very slowly finger after finger. Don't be afraid, it will even hurt your hand at first, but just continue and exercise.

I think you can get a stable one in as much as 6-12 months and after that you need to achieve a good sounding one. Watch youtube videos, try to understand the nuances of the movements.

And don't give up :) Once you have a half stable one you will be very happy and get the motivation to continue...

And I very much agree with Doitsujin. Once it stable and sounds half bad, you have to get the groove into your body to sound musical and that imho is the hardest and does not come only with monotonic practice but with the understanding of flamenco music.

Hope this helps :)

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~Andras

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 21:42:52

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to Spencer)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the four-finger (eamii) rasgueado when it is done correctly. whether one does the four-finger or three finger rasgueado, the trick is to develop consistent, even strokes that, no matter how fast, can be perceived individually, even when performing like a "roll."

Cheers,

Bll

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2010 22:42:41

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

quote:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the four-finger (eamii) rasgueado

exactly! Although Gerardo Nunes tells in his encuentro DVD that he dont use the pinky of the right hand at all, its a nice technique and absolutely has its right to exist. The most useful maybe in Seguiryas during continuous rasguados. I like the technique.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2010 10:18:58

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

Heres a little practice exercise I do to keep the rhythm straightened out for each individual finger:

Warm up with a few:

eamii,eamii

Then turn that same pattern into 3 triplets with a single note at the end:
eam,iie,ami,i

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2010 6:13:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to ChurroRocks)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChurroRocks

What would you say is the "normal" time it would take to learn the rasgueado technique?

I think I learned it unnaturally fast.

Depends on WHICH specific technique pattern you refer to. The simplest ones can take only seconds to master (eami, ami, mi, i etc ) where as more complex patterns can take years to get to sound and function exactly right.

A lot depends on your personal sense of rhythm. People with a better groove inside usually learn patterns faster.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2010 6:22:22

Spencer

Posts: 34
Joined: Mar. 27 2008
From: Bargara Beach, Australia

RE: Rasgueado question... (in reply to Ricardo)

@Christe de Gales: I like your exercise - thanks for that.

@Ricardo: Like you say, depends on which pattern. Everytime I start to start to feel vaguely comfortable with one pattern of rasgueado or triplet, another one pops up for me to learn. Seem like there is no time to work on my left hand, there is too much to learn with my right!!

Do the relative newbies amongst you who are learning triplets and rasgueados generally practice on dampended strings or do you play chord sequences? And if so, what are the sequences you like?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2010 14:59:36