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Hey, Yesterday, I went to local guitar shop to check Yamaha CG171SF. The guitar is made in China, the name was really hard to read. I tried to memorized: http://www.yamaha.com/guitars/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=60061 The guitar I saw was different from the one I checked at the shop. 1. The rosette is painted like any entry level Yamaha guitars. 2. The bridge-saddle (the while pieces of plastics) has lines of colors, it is not pure white. 3. The guitar has tapping-plate. 4. Doing some rasgeo, the sound isn't sharp (I can't comment is this since I'm not a professional player) I don't know, but is it a fake one? How to recognize the original one? Is CG171SF still in production? Which guitar do you suggest for a flamenco student? Thanks for help and time.
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to HuBaghdadi)
Hi HuBaghdadi,
the rosette is painted, this is still an entry level guitar. As for the sound, check out this video: (it's not flamenco, but the video is better quality than most of what can be found about this guitar on youtube)
Please note that with new strings the sound is a bit weird. It takes time until it starts to sound nice.
You should also check the serial number of the guitar and call Yamaha support to check if it's real.
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to HuBaghdadi)
I own several "fakes" (fakemenco's?). I own the Yamaha CG171SF and also the newer Yamaha CGX171SCF and I also own a Yamaha "silent Guitar" that I mentioned once on here and got laughed at (I modified it so that I can practice golpes while wearing headphones in motel rooms (mahogany tap plates with pickups), on breaks at work, etc...where I can't get loud. It is still better than working on your leg or a table top practicing rasq-golpes. These are all cheap guitars and are great for beating the hell out of and learning on. Too bad it took me so long to discover them, then my GRV $5,0000.00 classical (also modified) wouldn't need to be refinished. Just thought I would mention this newer version of the el cheapo Yamaha standby as no one else has yet that I am aware of ($550.00 @ GC). It also features an adjustable microphone built into the sound hole and a pickup with graphics and a mixer for balancing the two sources to get over the sound of dancers. It has a single cutaway which is ideal for an older guy with arthritus in his hands to play way up there. The worst thing about is that it smells strongly of cypress. I am told it acoustically projects more than the non-electric model out front. From where I sit (playing it) it sounds to me that it has less volume. The good things about it are: 1. It's a great beach guitar, and for recording-playing in less than pro concert situations. 2. If it gets stolen, I just buy another one (I don't have to feel the anxiety of watching it like a hawk). 3. It is also slightly thinner than the other (which also helps old guys that have had surgery for the back. 4. Unlike most women -- it is a cheap date. 5. Want to add a sound hole? Just drill away so what if it's not perfect? When I decided to get a motorcycle I did this the same way. I bought a cheap bike to learn on and put scratches and dents in it. Once I knew what I was doing, I jumped on the $20,000.00 Harley. My next flamenco will be a Conde or Ramirez.
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to HuBaghdadi)
I think a fake is a guitar which is dishonestly represented to be by a certain maker or made of a certain material and it is not.
A copy or a "bench copy" means that the guitar is made in the stlye of a certain maker but it is honestly represented as a copy. When someone says an instrument is a bench copy I associate that with perfect exact copy of a particular instrument. Usually in the violin world bench copies are made to stand in for instruments which are extremely valuable and should not travel to all places the player goes.
A bench copy passed off as the real thing would be a forgery.
In the guitar world copies or instruments made in the style of so and so are very common and there's nothing wrong with it as long as it's clear it's a copy.
Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to HuBaghdadi)
Hmmm... a fake Yamaha? How would that work...?
I'm imagining a guitar made in a Chinese factory... and I'm trying to see how different that would be compared from most Yamahas. Heh.
In fact the only real difference would be if it was actually contracted by Yamaha and if it went through Yamaha QC.
There is the possibility of some enterprising person labelling and reselling QC rejects. Stuff like that does happen in China with other products, so why not guitars?
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I'm not sure that the video above is a good representation of what that guitar could sound like. I think a different player, a different bit of music and a different recording set up could make it sound at least a bit more pleasing to M.S.A.'s ears.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to M.S.A.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: M.S.A.
Al righ, Exitao, that's another story here... this sounds much much better and I can't hear those typical crappy, muddy, out-of-tune sounds there. thanx for example, man!
I believe you're right with that - it also matters how someone plays it, how he produces the tone. also age of strings, perhaps. thx
In the first video, the guy is playing some funny stuff over the soundhole. Even a 10.000$ guitar would sound the same as the yamaha there in that video. There would be absolutely no difference imo.
Then again, with a pro. recording equipment with HQ effect processors , Compressor, EQ, etc. and a good player, you could make a yamaha sound like a pro. 10.000$ guitar on a CD.
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Ok, the yahama is a OK guitar. Nothing special. But good for the price. Nice and clean workmanship. Good playability. The only guitar in that price range which i found better was a Saez 22. Anyway, with such factory guitars, you never know. Sometimes 1 of 10 of them can be even much better than the rest and vice versa = total crap.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to HuBaghdadi)
believe me, if that guy in the first video would play a Conde A26 with exactly the same conditions and way of playing, it would sound not much better than that yamaha. i am 100% convinced about that.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to M.S.A.)
hmm.......yeah, but the guy in your video is much more "flamenco"! than the guy in the first video in this thread. Really not comparable. Ok, the guy you posted is not the best player but at least, he has a flamenco tone and way of playing. So, you could probably hear the difference between a Yamaha and a Carillo in his hands. But not in the hands of the guy in first video.
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don't know anything about jeff sigurdson guitars. but saw some of them on ebay for sale, quite cheap.
RE: Is this one fake or what? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
You are talking about the lowest end, cheapest functioning flamenco guitar in existence. If it is a "fake" so what???
Sort of like a counterfeit $1 bill . . .
_____________________________
"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."
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Um... What's a $1 bill? 
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