Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Caña
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
|
 RE: Caña (in reply to Ron.M)
|
|
|
quote:
Good video, Val,,,,even if it is from Torremolinos!
One thing I loved about living in Spain was the way that the Spanish folk who were interested in this stuff absolutely threw themselves into it without a care.
The diff I see in the foreign "emulations" is that everybody is so PC and very careful to try to appear or sound "muy jondo" and cool.
(Sometimes like a caracterture of the actual thing.)
Some of those Spanish folk wern't actually that good technically, but had an endearing and "loose" way of doing it that absolutely sold it to you.
Anybody know what I mean here?
cheers,
no i dont ...its a double standard comment you couldnt make to anyone else other then people you know for sure are from outside spain, u have the confidence of knowing it cant be argued with, so you are right even if you arent...if the same individual was spanish trying too hard ...he would just be spanish doing what they do..but because you know hes not spanish..."hes over the top "
ever wanna win an eazy argument...mention "outsiders" and u won before anyone even looked at any details
the PC...comes from something...outsiders didnt invented, there was something there thay emulated to begin with
if they didnt you would say its not paying attention to tradition if they do its over the top emulators, ..theres no way of wining really ..thats double standards
...what i notice is that its always other outsiders who arent spanish themselfs that create all the double standards to begin with..
on the one tread you say, thats flamencoish, its not really paying any attention to tradition , not the "real thing" and on the next you might say...its over the top trying to be PC .
sometimes spanish are "caracterture" of the real thing.... i have seen enough spanish over the top trying too hard too ( any face expresion sara baras ever pulls is over the top and try hard jondo..shes got greate feet and is pretty but is just not grounded enough or heavy enough on her feet to pull off the real thing IMO..but thats just how i see it, other might see her diferrently)...so i know enough to know its more a question of personality and taste other then where u from..
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 9 2010 20:22:28
 |
|
NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
|
|
RE: Caña (in reply to Ron.M)
|
|
|
The important thing is to focus on the pleasure (and hopefully transmit that pleasure to whoever's listening/watching). Just like telling a joke or a story. Pleasure could be lots of things, even pain. Sometimes even narcissistic pleasure will work ("I look SO cool..."), but not usually. Everybody's different, but I think most of us will always be a little worried about how "authentic" our art is. But after a certain point you stop worrying because you just know that it's right whether someone likes it or not.
quote:
how does one portray heartbrake and lost if u not old enough to have experienced it..
Hi Flo, a lot of people feel that way, but I've never agreed with that idea because pain is pain and we're talking about reacting to pain with music, not with words or behavior. It's too easy for older people to dismiss younger people just because they haven't got the same experience. What about when a little baby cries because he's tired? Does it seem like he's faking it? Actually, sometimes babies *do* cry like that when they start to realize that it's a way to get attention, and the parents can tell the difference right away. Likewise, flamencos are usually pretty good at detecting sincerity, and not just in performances. But getting back to age and experience, there's probably something to what you're saying, but I don't think it has much to do with an artist's ability to completely focus on what he or she is transmitting. But I could be wrong.
_____________________________
Be here now.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2010 8:35:48
|
|
NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
|
|
RE: Caña (in reply to Florian)
|
|
|
quote:
nice to see you Likewise! 
Yes I've had this discussion before, but like I said most people contend that meaningful and artistic expression comes from experience (las vivencias). I think I even posted something to that effect on this forum in a thread about Caracol and younger singers. Of course I've got my contradictions, but I think this is a complex matter, maybe because of the typical "short vs. long term" kind of element.
Here's what I think. Big generalizations here, feel free to disagree:
Within each artist, there are two factors that make for an intense performance. The first is absolute commitment to the moment (deep concentration), and the second is extremely precise expression (because when timing, tone, etc. are slightly off it distracts the listener).
It seems that younger people are good at drawing on intense sensations and that older people tend to exercise constraint over those sensations. It doesn't mean that older people's fires have faded, but they've felt those sensations many times before and have learned to see beyond them while they're happening (keeping one's head).
So back to the analogy of crying, a baby's emotion and commitment to the moment might be deeper (short term), but a baby hasn't learned the discipline necessary to harness that depth and make it work over a period of time (long term). This is a "problem" in an art like flamenco, in which repetition plays a big part in artistic development: It's hard to keep things fresh when you have to repeat them a thousand times.
Just a few ideas that I hope will lead to further discussion.
_____________________________
Be here now.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2010 23:15:46
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: Caña (in reply to Florian)
|
|
|
I started writing music when I was a kid. When i was about 15 or 16, even though I had not experienced much, and only bad thing really was heartbreak over chicks, the music I made even when I look at it now, was pretty deep and still relates to me as a middle age man.
I was kind of a serious kid, and in many ways I am much more immature now.  For sure I am more outgoing and not affraid to show emotion then when I was young, but I just remember all those feelings when I was a kid. I think even though I have experienced some heavy stuff since then, it has not necessarily made me a more deep and emotional artist. I would say I am better of course then when I was a kid, but I play different music now and have new tastes.
But in terms of feelings and depth, I would be lying if I felt the older guy me has something more deep and important than the young version did. It is all relative, and even if you have not experienced first hand a painful events or life experience of some sort, does not mean you can't appreciate and understand and even FEEL what someone else has. That is the point of making an artistic statement, or telling a story or making a movie. To let others experience the feeling of someone else, be it pain or triumph.
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 11 2010 7:29:04
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.09375 secs.
|
Printable Version
" 
