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Ronald

Posts: 2
Joined: Dec. 26 2009

I am new

Hello,
I am new here.
I am 51 years old and very much interested in making a flamenco guitar.
I have the material for a few guitars.
I would like to dye my own veneer.
What dye is usually used and what is the process.
I have maple veneers .

Ronald Denis
Canada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2009 12:02:20

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: I am new (in reply to Ronald)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ronald

Hello,
I am new here.
I am 51 years old and very much interested in making a flamenco guitar.
I have the material for a few guitars.
I would like to dye my own veneer.
What dye is usually used and what is the process.
I have maple veneers .

Ronald Denis
Canada

The traditional dye used is analine. If you'd rather not screw around with grinding and mixing you can get really good results with leather dyes. Just make sure they're not water based. You'll have to soak the veneer for several days then weight it down as it dries to keep it flat. Dense woods like maple take a surprising amount of time to absorb the dye. Make sure to have a tight cover on the container you use for soaking. Spirit based dyes will evaporate rapidly.

By the way, why are you dying the veneers? What's wrong with the natural color of maple and rosewood?

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2009 14:57:08

estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: I am new (in reply to Ronald)

Which part of the guitar are you using the veneer on? You can also cook veneers in water based dyes if you mordant them with salts to set the dye. That works better for strips rather than sheets of veneer, but it gives an amazing sparkle to the edge grain under finish.

If I were making the first guitar I would not waste time dying veneers, unless you're into making it really difficult for yourself. Dying is tedious, labor intensive and can be messy.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2009 18:34:30

Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: I am new (in reply to Ronald)

You can use common textile dye, such as Rit, usually sold in grocery stores and intended for dyeing or "touching-up" color in your clothes. These dyes are pretty cheap, not terribly toxic, and although water-based (yes, you can cook veneer in this dye) are reasonably water resistant after you use some mordant. Mordants can be many things, some of the common being vinegar, salt, baking soda, etc.. Again the common stuff found in grocery stores. Rit dye will have specific instructions as to the type of mordant they call for.

American Lutherie magazine http://www.luth.org/backissues/al69-72/al71.htm profiles rosette work by Eugene Clark--check out issues 71 and 73. Excellent articles, and very detailed, yet accessible treatment of the subject, including dyeing of the veneers. I highly recommend for you to get those two back issues if you are serious about getting into your own rosette and line work. If you need some already dyed veneers in sheets, it will be difficult to track down. Most veneer sold is too thin, and has some sort of paper backing, pretty useless stuff for our purposes. One source I've been using is B&B Rare Woods, and they have some excellent European-made dyed veneers in sheets. Veneers are thick enough. Here is some of the dyed veneer stuff they have:
http://www.wood-veneers.com/veneer_dyed.html

I hope this is helpful, and I wish you a very enjoyable experience in building your first guitars!

_____________________________

Peter Tsiorba
Classical-Flamenco-Guitars
tsiorba.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2009 14:51:32

Ronald

Posts: 2
Joined: Dec. 26 2009

RE: I am new (in reply to Ronald)

Hello,
Thank You for your replies.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with natural woods as rosette material.
It is beautiful and can get quite creative.
The only reason I need dyed veneers is to either recreate or create Spanish inspired rosettes; it seems that none dyed central motif is more of a new thing when I look at the works of the Spanish masters of past decades.
I do not mind the effort it takes to make my own rosette.
Peter, thanks for the tips.
Unfortunately, the American Lutherie magazine # 71 and 72 is no longer available as back issues and is not availble as an entry in the Big Books of Lutherie. And, B and B rare woods do not ship to Canada.
By the way, Your work is an inspiration; it is easy to tell that it is a passion for you and not just everyday work.
Ronald

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2009 6:23:02

estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: I am new (in reply to Ronald)

I saved those issues for that very reason. I'm sure someone else has too perhaps you can get copy of the article from someone here.

I learned to dye rosette strips from Gene Clark when he lived in my city. The dyed veneers are worth the effort if you really want to get sparkle in the rosette, but it does take a lot of effort.

The basics are that you make the dye solution weaker than you think you should and leave the strips in the solution longer. You need to find a pot that sill not react to your mordant materials.
You can get different colors by top dying with light colors an then redying with darker color. Simple things like yellow with blue over it makes greens etc.

Well there's a lot of pot watching involved, but if you want to do it I'm sure it can be explained and someone can get you the articles. I'm going to have to do some dying this spring myself because I've run out of all the strips I've dyed.

Good luck.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2009 10:31:42