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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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 RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to Guest)
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When I started to build guitars, I said no to the use of my university carrer, meaning a lot less security and less money. I also said no to Danish health service and I´m loosing my rights to a pension or at least part of it.
That doesnt sound like a very wice choice? I know, but thats the way I am and have always been. I have to live like that. If not, I feel like I´m slowly dying (I know I´m slowly dying, but at least I dont feel it  ) I´m even on the point, where I need to let go some more and live with less security, because I need to have a feeling of space and not being caught in routine. But thats just me and it has a lot to do with my tendencies to build up routines..... (complicated, I know)
IMO, you cannot think of how you need to live, you can can only live it. But you can try to contemplate how you funcion under different circumstances. Try to find out how much security you need in your life. How much you need to live your dreams and how much you need to just let go.
Then after that, try to see how this relates with the life you have build up and the thoughts you have for the future.
I wish you good luck. (and good to have you back on the foro  )
_____________________________
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Dec. 26 2009 0:51:09
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
of course, but its a mistake that children need parents with a Volvo, a dog, a top life insurrance, a well payed job etc.
Children need happy parents which have the time to be with their children and something to eat of course.
As I said, in the end its something very personal how we need to live our lives.
yes sure, you don't need the "perfect world" with all the stuffy things, to be good parents.
but a person who has absolutely no responsibility to anyone other than to himself, is much more free in his decisions and has more alternatives too choose from and can take much higher "risk" (in all aspects of life) imo.
don't tell me that a father of three 6 year old boys, could say "f...k everything" and move to Jamaica, smoke marijuhana and play guitar the whole day (and maybe build 2 guitars / year) or something like that...and then say " i am a happy father"
well, he could do that, but he would be a bad and selfish father.
_____________________________
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Date Dec. 26 2009 5:05:33
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to stratos13)
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quote:
The question left to answer is personal, and has to do with how good you think you are, and what are you willing to sacrifice
In high school our little garage band had a fine gem, a singer with an incredible voice and the cunning ability to emulate any other singer. As we grew up, he and I both enrolled in law school, leaving behind any ambitions to pursue a career in music.
I remember distinctively his red livid expression as the criminal law professor humiliated him on a wrong answer. He –the singer- threw the books out of the law school’s ancient balcony, in Bologna, Italy, and walked away. It was the spring of the year of our Lord 1983.
I never saw or heard of him, again, not until 10 years later to the exact season. I had moved to New York and a client rewarded me with tickets to my favorite Opera, Rogoletto.
When Rigoletto walked the sacred planks of the Metropolitan Opera’s stage my heart skipped out of compas… there he was, my high school singer. He commanded the scene with incredible ease, the uncontested centerpiece of the performance, the finest baritone voice and actor I had ever seen in action. The audience agreed, applauding him in standing ovations which evoked more rock concerts than the refined poised crowd of the opera house.
Backstage we hugged. My presence had given him the opportunity to vindicate the shame he had left behind, he confided, as people pressed him for an autograph. He had –unknown to me- become the “baritone” every conductor, every tenor and soprano wanted in the most prestigious casting.
I promised him not to reveal any of our past, an I will not disclose his name faithful to my promise. Yet, this story shows how at times we bury our dreams and talents under social pressure and expectations. However, as my grandmother used to say, “when divine providence will choose you, “she” knows where you live”…. I will add, and she might need to smack you stiff out of the lethargic routine you have fallen into, before showing you into heaven.
_____________________________
gj Michelob
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Date Dec. 26 2009 8:34:51
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cathulu
Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan
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RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to Guest)
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Where I live...
There is a flamenco guitarist, very good at accompaniment, lives in a trailer in someone's backyard, single and travels a lot. Basically students and income from shows. Lives a very spartan lifestyle. Not sure what would happen to him if he got sick or infirm. But he is free for now.
Another flamenco guitarist, his wife runs a teaching and performing school and he is the principal guitarist. I believe they have children and do allright. I suspect family money helps there, they live in a nice part of town.
Another one, he works in the engineering field to support his family and Flamenco is his passion during his spare time.
Another up and comer with a degree in music is going back to University for his teaching certificate to become a music teacher. Another guy I know is doing that also - he is a very good Argentinian guitarist. Teaches on the side to make some money while he is going to school but will get student grants to concentrate on studies.
There are a couple of others that I don't know enough about, but I think they are doing flamenco on the side.
Suffice to say, you should get yourself a teaching gig at a school, college or university and flamenco on the side. That is what I would recommend given you are married and want children. Don't get discouraged if you have to go back to school to get a teaching certificate. Look at Ruben Diaz.
Good luck in your future endeavours! Whatever happens will be good in the end, that I know for certain.
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Date Dec. 26 2009 10:17:00
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: romerito
I am not a spring chicken anymore...I have a great part time job with health benefits and I am afraid to go 100% professional. Does anybody else worry about going professional without health benefits?
We were no spring chickens either when we came to Spain. We dont have pensions or health insurance but we are happy and we have survived, that's not to say it was not scary to turn our lives around. On saying that I dont think we took a big risk, we could always have returned to England if it had not worked out. It was worth taking a chance on.
I had friends who emmigrated to New Zealand, sold their home, transported all their furniture, said goodbye to friends and put themselves and the kids on a plane and yet on arriving they felt they had made a big mistake. They turned round and were back home in 48 hours.
Japan may not be Andalucia but I know loads of flamencos who spend a good deal of time out there. As accompaniests and teachers they are paid well and sought after. It's worth looking at as an alternative to Spain where work is hard to get and there is a lot of competition. We were lucky in that Harold had a variety of skills so does not rely on just one thing, he has worked in TV , film, live sound, building studios, producing, mixing and mastering. Though it has taken about 10 years to build up contacts and get the reputation he enjoys now. There is no getting round the fact a foreigner working in flamenco in Spain is going to have a tough time.
I know foreigners working in Spanish Universities but mostly in the English departments. If your Spanish is good then it could be interesting for you to write to the various universities and ask about work prospects.
In the meantime I would think if you have a great part time job with health insurance you are in a perfect position to pursue your dream right where you are.
Good luck with your dissertation.
_____________________________
Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
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Date Dec. 27 2009 1:42:11
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
1) Do you have any suggestions for career options?
My brother-in-law just got done with his ethno studies and from what he has told me, Ricardo is dead on with the tip about grants - it's the only way to get an own project started unless you want to work as a travel guide.
quote:
2) What sacrifices are you making for this culture/art/music so that you can participate in it more?
For me it was all or nothing, doing half and half was torture for me. I've been at it half a year now and couldn't judge on my success after such a short time yet, my income is okay at the moment. One does have to make compromises, I don't only do what I want. A lot of what I do is not flamenco, like solo Spanish guitar, I accompany slide shows with fitting music, give a lot of private lessons. I may have to do a part time job at some point, still it's better than doing something full time that I knew I didn't like and was VERY BAD at.
quote:
3) I am not a spring chicken anymore...I have a great part time job with health benefits and I am afraid to go 100% professional. Does anybody else worry about going professional without health benefits?
The existential worries most people have are instinctual and have little to do with any real risk. Of course if you're a parent age 40 it's a different situation, but if you only need to take care of yourself there's little you can do that would "ruin your life" - except get sick and run up a hospital bill of tens of thousands of dollars. Do get health insurance if you can. Germany has socialized medicine, free-lancing artists are included, so I'm lucky there.
My philosophy: Do something exciting with your life that you're passionate about to make a positive challenge out of it. You can sit in a safe spot until it's over, but it's a waste in my opinion.
_____________________________
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
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Date Dec. 28 2009 4:50:06
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Michael1917
Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007
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RE: Career options in Flamenco - Wha... (in reply to Guest)
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I'm 45 years old now but I agree with Anders, with these caveats:
Two comments:
1) If you have a wife and children, your first responsibility is to them, to provide for them, educate the children, rear them as best you can with your spouse. If you can do that and play flamenco at the level that makes you happy (and perhaps a little financially better), all the better.
2) If you are younger and single, late teens or in your 20s and flamenco is your great passion, then I strongly suggest that you do whatever you can to reach the level of success you want in that art. Do not listen to the people who say it is not practical or should only be a hobby, blah, blah, blah.
If you have talent and know how to work hard and work very hard consistently, then pursue your flamenco dream.
But any art form, whether flamenco or poetry or theater, whatever, is extremely hard work. It does not fall into your lap like some romantic novel. You have to work just as hard as the guy who works in the coal mine---every day, every day.
If you work harder than the other guys and don't give up, chances are you will achieve the goal or something comprable. Of course, situations can change in life -- fall in love and you'll find out. But if you stick to your goal and have the talent to begin with, you can do well. Do not listen to the naysayers. Yes, be practical, but if you have the basic talent, then work on it, work on it, cultivate it and push yourself. Don't quit ----- push harder.
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Date Dec. 28 2009 7:23:37
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Of course I always plan to do too much and never get everything done, that's just life! 
