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RE: seguirilla?
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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 RE: seguirilla? (in reply to Ramon Amira)
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quote:
I just had a great idea. Remember that humorous exchange we had, and you said "Touche" which I took as a challenge to a duel, so I replied "Flamenco guitars at ten paces."
i know it's a term deriving from fencing (where i believe it means an acknowledgement that a scoring hit has been made), but i was using it in it's general use to mean "an acknowledgement of the striking home of a remark or the capping of a witticism" etc. i wasn't challenging you to any duel
quote:
We then both begin to play Bulerias at each other. But you play "Nuevo" Bulerias, and I play "Old School" Bulerias.
not sure if i could or would play either "nuevo" (whatever that means to you) or "old school" (whatever that means to you), chances are i would probably play something of each and several shades in between....
....if someone only listens to historic recordings pre 1960 they would probably call it "nuevo", to someone who only listens to this years up and coming guitarists cd releases, it would probably sound "old school", but to me it would just be "flamenco"
(and btw i have no problem with anyone whose taste dictates that they only prefer the old, the new, or anything in between)
quote:
We keep playing this at each other until one of us gets so sick of hearing the other's Bulerias, he strangles himself with a high tension G string. End of duel
you made another post about someone getting strangled with a guitar string (and having their head bashed in)..... maybe you should lay off the horror films or something?
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 12 2009 10:10:39
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granjuanillo
Posts: 32
Joined: Nov. 3 2009
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RE: seguirilla? (in reply to at_leo_87)
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As Ricardo posted, 'seguidillas' is related to a class of Spanish dances/songs, which include Sevillanas and Panaderos; the latter is very similar to Seguidillas Manchegas - i.e. the variety of seguidillas from La Mancha, in central Spain (while Sevillanas would be the variety from Sevilla).
The word comes from 'seguir' 'continue', so these are songs that continue (perhaps that is why they have that repetitive structure). 'seguidilla' is the diminutive of the past participle of 'seguir.
During the 18th century, perhaps earlier, one saw references to 'seguidillas gitanas' to refer to Gitano interpretations of seguidillas. However, these were very different from the folk dance seguidillas, but the verses have similar metrical structure. The 'seguidillas gitanas' are what we now know as 'siguiriyas'.
You get 'siguiriyas' from 'seguidillas' by dropping the 'd' (which you'd do in Andalucian Spanish) and pronouncing the 'll' like a 'y' (which is now almost universal in Spanish, but began in Andalucia). You also have to change the first vowel, but that may be influenced by the following 'g', for phonetic reasons I won't bore you with.
I think you tend to see 'seguidillas' labeled on older recordings, often 'seguidillas gitanas'.
One usually reads that 'solea' comes from an Andalucian pronunciation of 'soledad' - it is true that's what you'd get, by dropping both d's. However, the plural, 'soleares' is a bit more mysterious - where does the 'r' come from? Manuel Rios Ruiz proposes an alternative hypothesis that it comes from the verb 'solear' (which means to put something in the sun, e.g. when drying olives). Andalucian pronunciation would also produce 'solea', dropping the 'r', and it provides an immediate account for the plural (the 'r' is only dropped at the end of a word; in the plural the 'r' is no longer at the end).
Rios Ruiz suggests that solea has its origin in the countryside, sung by Gitano agricultural workers - we know that Gitano agricultural work played an important role in the development and transmission of flamenco. I find this interesting, as I have always thought there is a clear similarity in the melodies of some soleares apolaos and bamberas, which is a country cante.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 13 2009 8:46:14
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