Vincent Amigo's Morente

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aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

Vincent Amigo's Morente

I have always played classical guitar but I like the works of Amigo and have been working on his Morente for about 3 months and almost have it memorized. While I like the piece I am unsure of what it is, musically. To me it just sounds like a string of riffs. I believe this style is referred to a Nuevo Flamenco now. Any information placing this style in context would be appreciated.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2009 14:35:50

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

well, "Morente" was probably "nuevo" in 1991, but with each passing year it becomes a little bit more "viejo"

it's a Granaina, so you can search "Granaina" and/or "Granadina" on the Foro and/or the net to find out more (it's called "Morente" in dedication to singer Enrique Morente, who is from Granada, and it's a Granadinas, which is a song form from Granada..etc. etc.)

you will notice if you check out other pieces in this form that in Morente there is a recurring signature motif played glissando which slides from F# to B on the 6th string (with some slurs ornamenting those 2 notes at each end of the slide). This is both typical and traditional. There are various other passages which locate this piece within an evolving tradition. The more you listen, the more you will probably find the lines between "new" and "traditional" get kind of fuzzy....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2009 15:20:59

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

Thanks a lot Mark, That's exactly what I was after. Could I trouble you for an example of the latest Nuevo playing?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 2:04:11

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Could I trouble you for an example of the latest Nuevo playing?

er... i dunno really, i mean, i don't know that it's really that much of an important distinction to make, and it probably depends on what you mean by "nuevo".... maybe just look on flamenco-world for this years releases, Vicente's latest, "Paseo De Gracia", or try this;

http://www.flamenco-world.com/tienda/shop.php?&ferca=800d2723bdc5f023951cf4b451f664a5&op_shop=show&id_prod=2847&id_cat=

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 15:08:26

Ricardo

Posts: 14889
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

It is based on Granaina, as Mark said, which is a flamenco SONG form. Granaina is a free rhythm song based on the Fandangos, which was originally a song with a 3/4 type rhythm. Granaina is typically played (as a guitar solo) with a very loose 3 beat phrasing, bordering on totally free of meter and tempo. Sort of like how the classical music during the "Romantic" period stretched and distorted the strict rhythmic structures of older classical song forms. Hence your perception of the music as "a string of riffs".

The term "nuevo" is typically not appropriate to describe any true flamenco music based on a specific song form, as it has a negative meaning for some aficionados. "nuevo" is more a term used for the genre of "spanish inspired" music which borrows lightly from scales and chords of flamenco, or played on a flamenco guitar even, but is not based on any specific flamenco song form.

It is better to divide flamenco guitar music into "modern" style vs "traditional" style. So Vicente's music for sure is of the "modern" school of playing, and pushes the bounderies of the traditional form, while still keeping with the basic structure.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 20:01:42

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

Vicente's latest, "Paseo De Gracia"

Thanks again Mark. Checking Vicente's web page he has the piece playing and it is a much more elaborate production that I have heard from him before and I think I have all or most of his CDs. Frankly I like the guitar with a minimum of backing: percussion and maybe a second guitar for rhythm. Ottmar Liebert has mined this vein successfully
and he is classified as new age! He plays a cedar negra and inserts an occasional rasquedo. Perhaps one can say flamenco inspired.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 2:45:05

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

Granaina is typically played (as a guitar solo) with a very loose 3 beat phrasing, bordering on totally free of meter and tempo

That was the feeling I was getting working on the piece and I am glad to have a better understanding of that. I felt I was playing someones improv and that didn't seem really possible but then again Keith Jarrett 's Berlin concert improv has been transcribed for guitar and is played by several leading players.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 2:54:01

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

Aeolus, here's a page i recommend for reading, it's Sal Bonavita's site and he describes it in detail what flamenco is not - and it's very funny too...
http://www.herso.freeservers.com/what_flamenco_is_not.html

you mention the name Ottmar Liebert - purists (and even non purists) will start shaking and their heads will turn red as if they're going to explode...
Liebert's name is not to be associated with flamenco, he may be inspired by certain techniques, he may even be able to play some, but no, he has very little to do with it...in fact he could be called a villain in flamencoland...there have been many threads on the subject in the past, you might want to search them...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 3:01:40

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Thanks. That was funny. And I kind of thought the mention of Liebert would be something like waving a muleta so to speak. And I'll have to check out the older threads on him. Reading the back pages of his diary he was miffed when Paco de Lucia said any street kid in Spain could play better flamenco than him. But outside of naming his first CD Nuevo Flamenco I don't think he tries to pass himself off as a flamenco player. He is really new age, playing barefoot and titling his tunes romantically aimed at the ladies I think. But a villain?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 5:05:45

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

villain - but not being too serious...but it obviously upsets people when anyone tries to sell themselves as flamenco when they in fact have really nothing to do with it...i don't think he tries to sell himself as flamenco in general (and to be honest i know very little about him and i'm not too interested either), but naming his album like that was bad enough and earned him many enemies among flamencos...and he's not the only one...and it might not even be his fault, it's the marketing machine...but we don't have to like it...

the funniest threads were about Juan Martin, who IS a flamenco, although not a very skilled one compared to the rest...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 6:06:19

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

I can imagine the posts on Juan Martin as I have 2 of his discs and they both seemed
pretty much the same: para mi madre or something like that. the fact that Leibert's Nuevo flamenco sold 2 mil. copies might have something do do with the anger. Incidentally did you know he had a Hungarian mother? German/Chinese father. Maybe one has to be a Spanish gypsy to have real cred as a flamencos and a lot have faked it I'll bet. Such as Manitas de Plata;-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 6:42:18

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Vincent Amigo's Morente (in reply to aeolus)

well, no matter where they're from, the music is what matters and if it's not flamenco, don't use the word at all...i have respect for even all the fake musicians because they spend their time practicing etc, but flamenco to most of us is an artform and rarely a means of making a living...those who make flamenco music for a living i imagine have the most anger towards these people and rightly so...when people hear they play flamenco they expect to hear the latin-ish trash they were told is flamenco by the likes of Liebert (or their management, whatever)

back to the subject, modern flamenco may sound occasionally jazzy, influence by many things, but the roots are there, it's worth discovering it...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 7:06:10